#103: Dee Dee Bridgewater with Marcus Miller

This week's episode, recorded during the Journey of Jazz Cruise on the West Coast, features Dee Dee Bridgewater in conversation with co-host Marcus Miller, sharing stories from her remarkable five-decade career. The interview explores her journey from setting big goals at age seven to her life in Paris, discussing how she overcame adversity and developed the tools to succeed both artistically and professionally.

Key Takeaways

• Early Ambitions & Idols: Dee Dee decided at the age of seven that she would be an internationally known jazz singer, well-respected by musicians, and would live in Paris, France—all of which came true. Her greatest idol was Nancy Wilson, whom she admired for her voice, style, and class, along with Lena Horn and Diahann Carroll.
• The Importance of Storytelling: Dee Dee transitioned from focusing primarily on musical notes and melody to telling the story of a song. This shift was heavily influenced by her time in the Broadway production of The Wiz and working with its director, her second husband, Gilbert Moses.
• Life in France: Dee Dee lived in Europe for 24 years. Her celebrity status in France was jump-started when a poster of her from the musical Sophisticated Ladies was used throughout Paris. She found great success, including filling 3,000-4,000 seat theaters after a successful duet with Ray Charles.
• Josephine Baker Connection: Dee Dee served as the honorary president of the Josephine Baker Association. Her great aunt, Lahi G. (Ladi G E), was responsible for bringing Josephine Baker to Paris and is referenced in Baker's biographies.
• China Moses's Start: When Dee Dee was offered a rock album deal with Virgin Records, she declined it and instead convinced the label to sign her daughter, China Moses, who was 16 at the time. Dee Dee acted as a "tough mama," refusing to critique China's style, ensuring China's success stemmed solely from her own efforts.
• The Thad Jones School: Dee Dee's musical education primarily came from the Thad Jones/Mel Lewis Orchestra, which she joined before John Fattis. Thad Jones gave her the nickname "Renion" and taught her to learn by ear, often changing arrangements mid-song ("We're going back to letter C").
• The Woodshed Network: Dee Dee founded the Woodshed Network in 2019 for young women in jazz to create a safe space and provide them with essential business tools for successful careers. The idea originated after she observed issues while on the faculty of the Betty Carter Jazz Ahead program.

Host and Guest Information

RoleNameDetails from Source
Guest | Dee Dee Bridgewater | Charismatic and expressive jazz singer, career spanning five decades. Discusses her album Just Family (produced by Stanley Clark) which features the song "Maybe Today". Winner of a Tony Award for The Wiz.
Interviewer/Host | Marcus Miller | Co-host of the Journey of Jazz Cruise. Provided the theme music: "High Life" from the album Aphrodesia on Blue Note.
Host | Lee Mergner | Host of Jazz Cruises Conversations podcast.

• Listen to more episodes of Jazz Cruises Conversations on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. The back catalog contains more than a hundred interviews from past sailings.
• Theme Music: Provided by Marcus Miller from his song "High Life" on his album Aphrodesia on Blue Note.

Transcript

This is the transcript of episode 103, "Dee Dee Bridgewater with Marcus Miller," drawing directly from the provided source material:

Jazz Cruises Conversations: Episode 103 – Dee Dee Bridgewater with Marcus Miller

Lee Mergner (Host): Hi, welcome to Jazz Cruise's Conversations. I'm your host, Lee M. This week's episode number 103 in the series of talks from the sellings of our cruises is another from the recent Journey of Jazz Cruise on the West Coast. The co-host of that cruise, Marcus Miller, interviewed the charismatic and expressive Dee Bridgewater, who shared stories from her remarkable career of more than five decades. Dee talked about how she approaches singing a song, about her love for Nancy Wilson, about living in Paris for many years, about her unique connection to Josephine Baker, about the career of her daughter, China Moses, about working with Thad Jones, and finally about the mentoring organization for women that she ran called the Woodshed Network. If there's a theme throughout the interview, it's about facing challenges and overcoming adversity. The recording of this interview starts a little bit into the conversation, but you won't have missed much. Just a little introduction. I hope you enjoy it.

Marcus Miller: Celebration, but how do you deal with the people who are are affected by what you do in such an intense way. I mean, I'm sure it's been happening for a long time, but does it take you by surprise or you just like, "Yeah, honor me."

Dee Bridgewater: Marcus, you know,

Marcus Miller: bow down. I'm DD Bridge.

Dee Bridgewater: Oh, stop it. No, I don't do that. You know, I'm I'm I am very humbled when people come up to me and talk to me about experience that they've had based on my music and what my music means to them. Just on this ship. You know, I've seen, you know, some people that I've seen on other cruises that I've done cuz I don't do like you. I am not doing all them cruises, but you know, so people will stop me and share and and I I'm open to it.

Marcus Miller: Yeah.

Dee Bridgewater: Because I remember when I first met or tried to meet Roberta Flack. I had driven um I I grew up in Flint, Michigan. Um, so I had driven down to Detroit to Baker's Keyboard Lounge with a girlfriend of mine and we were 17 and they allowed us in the club because my daddy knew somebody at Bakers. So we we drive down through a snowstorm. So we we don't get there in time. We get there for the second show and she's coming down the aisle. I'll never forget this. And I said, "Oh, Miss Flack, Miss Flack, Miss Flack." And she says, "Don't touch me."

Marcus Miller: Oh no. Oh no.

Dee Bridgewater: And I was like wow and that stayed with me. I will never ever be that person to do that because we don't know in this life who we are going to meet and what that individual's life is about. But if they have taken time out to want to la us for something that we have done, I think it would behoove us not to be respectful and respond or allow them to voice how they feel.

Marcus Miller: Absolutely. Any stories about stories that people have um have told you about how your music affected their life? Anything come to mind?

Dee Bridgewater: Well, I just I I I have a lot of one of my first albums um was called Just Family and on the cover I'm naked and with my second daughter inside of me because as you probably probably know I am not a controversial person. I don't like people talking about me. But so I had done that album cover and um

Marcus Miller: just pause. This is one of the most beautiful album covers you have ever seen. I remember seeing that album cover. It's called Just Family.

Dee Bridgewater: Just Family and Stanley Stanley Clark had produced it. Yes. So um there's a song on there that um is called Maybe Today. It was written by my second husband, Gilbert Moses, and it's a beautiful song, but I have had so many people come up to me and say, "Thank you for maybe today." You know, we made a baby on maybe today. You know that baby. And I'm like, "Okay, all right. Okay." And then now I'm meeting the children. You know, my parents told me they listened to maybe today and this is how I'm here. And I'm like, "Okay, I owe my life to you." Thank you. So So yeah, that's happened.

Marcus Miller: So uh you mentioned Roberta Flack. Yeah. Who else? um affected you? Who did you listen to who kind of turned you on?

Dee Bridgewater: Oh, my idol Nancy Wilson. Nancy Wilson. Nancy Wilson. When I was a teenager, I mean, and I first when she did that album with Cannonball Adderley and she's on the cover and she's got that kind of orangey. I was like, "Okay, I want to be like that."

Marcus Miller: Did Save Your Love for Me on that album?

Dee Bridgewater: Yes. No, I think so. I'm not sure.

Marcus Miller: We'll check somebody. Google that for us. Yes. Would you please? That's the mess thing about Google cuz you could have had an argument for like 6 months about that right before. Now there's nothing to argue about.

Dee Bridgewater: Now you just like just a minute.

Marcus Miller: Somebody just pulled out their I saw I see a couple of y'all pulling out your phones right now. Thank you. Would you let us know? Yeah.

Dee Bridgewater: But so Nancy Wilson was my my idol. And um I remember when that album came out. My father um his name was Matthew Garrett. He died in 23 but he was a trumpet player part-time. And this is why I love Trump. trumpet. You know, so um he would cut out articles on Nancy Wilson and he bought me that album.

Marcus Miller: Oh, wow.

Dee Bridgewater: And so I took the cover and I put it up on the wall in my bedroom and all the articles. So I had a whole wall of Nancy Wilson.

Marcus Miller: Really? You didn't have one picture of Marvin Gaye up there?

Dee Bridgewater: No, but I met Marvin. Okay, that's even And that was even better. Oh, baby. I can tell you some Marvin Gaye. stories, but no. So, yes. Yeah. No, so Nancy Wilson, I I I decided I wanted to be like Nancy as a jazz singer. And I already knew from the age of seven that I wanted to sing jazz, you know.

Marcus Miller: Wow. From the age of seven.

Dee Bridgewater: From the age of seven, I announced to my parents when I grow up, I'm going to be an internationally known jazz singer at seven. Yes. Wellresected. by musicians.

Marcus Miller: Well respected by musicians. Wow.

Dee Bridgewater: And I'm going to live in Paris, France.

Marcus Miller: Wow. And you really?

Dee Bridgewater: Yeah. And and that all happened.

Marcus Miller: What was it do you think that um captivated you about Nancy Wilson?

Dee Bridgewater: Her voice, her style, just her class. You know, when I would see her on TV shows, she was always so classy. But for me, it was really important um that I keep myself in good shape like Nancy and another woman that I admired greatly was Lena Horn and another woman that I admired greatly at that time was Diahann Carroll and these were three black gorgeous classy women and that that was always my image that I wanted to project.

Marcus Miller: And you know when um You know, lots of people didn't understand how important Julia was. And Julia being um in the 60s Diahann Carroll's was kind of like a a sitcom. Yes. Right. Like Yes. She was a a single mom. Yes. And we had never seen We had never seen that on TV before. Right. No. When you sing a lyric, each time you sing the song, are you reliving whatever the the story that the song is telling or do you just kind of get into the notes. What's going through your through your mind, through your soul when you're when you're delivering one of those songs?

Dee Bridgewater: Marcus, that's a good question. When, you know, when I first started singing, I was really invested in the notes because I was starting out and so hitting the right notes and then being able to improvise, those things were really important to me because I wanted to really established myself as a good jazz singer, you know, and so the melody was really important and I picked a lot of songs based on the melody, not so much the story.

Marcus Miller: the notes. Yeah.

Dee Bridgewater: And the notes. Um, and as I got older and probably after having done The Wiz and after having done, you know, some other theater and had a little bit of of stuff with film, I began to understand. Well, let me let me let me rephrase that. After having done The Wiz and having worked with the man who became my second husband, Gilbert Moses, Gilbert Moses was an amazing actor's director. So, when when he did us in The Wiz, and by the way, The Wiz as it stood on Broadway was not directed by Jeffrey Holder. It was directed by Gilbert Moses and Jeffrey just got to take the credit for it. And it was something that was difficult and probably affected our marriage um because I was still in the show and he had been fired from doing the show and so he had to live with this woman who was going Oh, that must have been to the theater. Oh, that's every day. Yeah, that's tough. And then I won, you know, I won the Tony and and he came and was with me. But then Jeffrey won his Tony. Oh. Oh my goodness. So it was a very very complicated situation. So that's just an aside, but he was a wonderful um actor's director. So a lot of us in the original Wiz were not this was our first theatrical production. So he really taught us the importance of telling the story and developing our characters and giving ourselves a backstory, giving ourselves history as whatever the character was. was that we were portraying and being able to emote in a way that people all the way up in the rafters would be able to feel what we were doing. So I would say from that was my first indication of the importance of telling the story. So I would say that I really got into telling the story probably the late 70s after I had done the is. But as I've gotten older, it has become that has become my principal thing. Yes. Is telling the story because now I know all the notes. Yeah. Or if I and and when I'm learning a new song, like there's a new song that I'm learning that has got so many verses to it. It's a Bob Dylan song. Okay. That I do that I'll be doing tomorrow and it's called um You going to have to serve somebody. Yeah. Well, it's got eight verses.

Marcus Miller: Eight verses as opposed to the normal two or three.

Dee Bridgewater: Yes. And so I I stopped at five but I still can't get them completely in my head. So you know I'm I I will have my iPad on stage you know so that I can remember the lyrics but story the story is important and if you are a musician worth your weight at all of course you got the notes you've got the melody all all of that is is good but telling the story now is important.

Marcus Miller: When I um all the older musicians would tell us, especially when we played ballads, they said, "Do you know the words to this song?" Cuz we're playing instrumental versions. And we go, "Why do we need to, you know, why do we need to know the words? You know, we're just going to play and you're playing all the fancy stuff." And as you get older, you start to realize you've been playing this song all wrong because you didn't know the sentiment of the song. You didn't know the story. That's right. And somehow it I think jazz is such the tools of jazz are so difficult to master that you do have to spend some time like you did learning the notes just figuring out how to improvise and and all that but after a while you why does the way this person plays a song why does the way Dexter Gordon plays a ballad touch me in a way that some of the other guys doesn't and Dexter would tell you every lyric he knew Dexter knew yes verse five six seven and eight yes and so that's very that's, you know, something that I've been peeping on you because it seems like uh you can put the song across and everybody feels it.

Dee Bridgewater: Well, it's I I I just feel, you know, let me say this because I lived in France and I lived in Europe for 24 years. I had to do I I was singing in English in a foreign country and having to get the emotion of the song across so that the French could at least understand the feeling that I was trying to project because they would not necessarily understand the words, right, because it's another language. And so I've become very very aware of the importance of of emoting the giving the emotion or trying to you know pass this emotion on to to listeners so that they they get it. I've also become very much a ware of the importance of which a lot of us don't do and I try to tell my musicians you got to do this speaking slowly and enunciating when you are on stage because you don't know who's in your audience.

Marcus Miller: right

Dee Bridgewater: and somebody might be in the audience who does not speak English very well so it's really important and then of course when we're in Europe it is extremely important to do that. So,

Marcus Miller: well, we um we both had that experience and we both speak French. Once you learn another language or you attempt to learn another language, Yes. you you gain respect for people here in America where English isn't your first language. Yep. Because the first thing you do, whether you realize it or not, or a lot of people do, is they go, "Oh, well, they're not that intelligent." You know, just because they don't have a mastery of the language. But when you flip it, you go over there and you realize, man, this is difficult, you know, but also what it makes you do is speak slowly. Because you know how difficult it is when somebody you're trying to learn a language of somebody's just flying through all the words. You you don't know where one word ends and one next word begins. Y so you start to learn to speak slowly, enunciate, make sure your message is getting through, right? Yeah, that's really important. Where is your um what was your um What was the most difficult part of you living in a foreign country? Um, when did you when did you move? Did you move directly to Paris?

Dee Bridgewater: Well, I moved to Paris. Yeah, I've only lived in in in Paris and outside of Paris. Um, I moved there. Um, when did I move there? I had gone I I jumped ship with uh the musical Sophisticated Ladies. I was doing an international tour and um and we got to to Paris and because the French are so independent, I mean they just they they don't do anything like anybody else as we know and um so they had decided not to use the poster for sophisticated ladies. They made their own poster. So but the poster was me. really. Yes. Coming down the stairs and doing uh the song uh in a sentimental mood, right? And it was kind of like a Jean Harlo moment because I had on this gorgeous like, you know, 30s 40s gown with a train and the bow of feathers around it, you know, and oh, it was fabulous. And so they use that photo. So when we we get into Paris, I'm seeing me all over Paris. So I had this kind of opening that just happened for me and I

Marcus Miller: That's a hell of a welcome, isn't it?

Dee Bridgewater: It was. It was a beautiful welcome. So it was it was then easy for me easier for me to get into the fabric of the city because I did have that opening and so I was able to do television shows. I did a lot of television shows right away and enjoyed a kind of celebrity and still do to this day.

Marcus Miller: Absolutely. In France that I do not have here in the States. I mean I'm a big celebrity. Yeah. Oh, I can attest to that. Yeah. Absolutely.

Dee Bridgewater: So it's you know and I did I was one of the only jazz artists in France, even with their own jazz artists, who was allowed to do television shows. I did all the major TV shows. I mean, every show you can imagine. And and uh it created a kind of uh uh backlash for me with the French promoters and festival promoters, you know, they were like You know, you're doing you you become popular. Yes. And that's a bad word. That's po popular in France is bad.

Marcus Miller: Yeah. Rich in French is bad and popular is bad.

Dee Bridgewater: Popular is really bad. So, so I had this kind of backlash because I was wellknown. And then I had done this duet with Ray Charles that never got to the States, but it was a huge hit. And and so I was able to fill three 4,000 seat theaters. Right. Me a little jazz singer because I'd worked with Ray Charles. Do you know what I'm saying? Yeah. And then I had done all of these TV shows and and and I had learned the language which had afforded me the possibility to do all of this stuff. So I had embraced that culture. So living there for me became uh it was a wonderful experience. It really really was on so many levels.

Marcus Miller: They also have a tradition. Yeah. of revering. Yeah. fierce, fabulous black women like uh Josephine Baker, right? Yes. And who else? There was one more.

Dee Bridgewater: Well, Bricktop.

Marcus Miller: Yes.

Dee Bridgewater: Back then, um you just walked right into that with that wearing that that gown and coming down the stairs and singing like you do. They were like, "We've been waiting for you." Yes. Yes. It was It was a It was a lovely thing. It really was. I can share something with you about Josephine.

Marcus Miller: Oh, really?

Dee Bridgewater: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Um I was the honorary president of the Josephine Baker Association.

Marcus Miller: Really?

Dee Bridgewater: Uhhuh. And uh so we would have meetings in Sarlot where she has uh lay well a wonderful gentleman has bought lay and has kept it up. Um but my great aunt, the sister of my grandmother on my father's side, my paternal grandmother, her name was Lahi G. Ladi G E and she was one of the people responsible to get Josephine to Paris.

Marcus Miller: Really?

Dee Bridgewater: And she is cited in most of the biographies on Josephine Baker.

Marcus Miller: Wow. Yeah, man. Yeah. Didn't know that.

Dee Bridgewater: I know. I thought I'd share.

Marcus Miller: We can drop science on somebody when we leave the ship. Did you know?

Dee Bridgewater: Did you know? So, you know, And then um I I know several of her children.

Marcus Miller: You do?

Dee Bridgewater: Yes. Yes. And um in recent years, of course, you know, life happens and so you don't stay in touch, but um Yes, I was I was friends with several of her children.

Marcus Miller: Tell us about speaking of children, tell us about China Moses.

Dee Bridgewater: Oh, China is my daughter from my marriage to Gilbert Moses. Okay. All of this this all wrapped It all wraps up. It all connects. Um, but China, um, China is a singer. China is is a DJ like you. And I don't know how you all do that. I la you all. I do. I just sent her a text today and said, "I love you and I'm so proud of you because of your dedication." Yes. And your independence. Because my daughter China also sings. But when my daughter decided she wanted to sing, it was after her father had passed. Um Gilbert passed in um 95 and I couldn't get her out of the bed for like two months because she was her daddy's child. And finally I went to her and I said, "You know, China, why don't you write down what you are feeling? We've got to move through this." She comes to me with what she's written and I said, "Baby, this is a song." She says, "Mommy, it's just my feelings." I said, "Well, I think this is a song." I said, "Now, why don't you find the music for it?" "Oh, I think I've got the music." She goes, "Now she's like 16." I'm like, "Okay, okay, okay." So, I had a friend, his name is Jerry Lipkins, and he lived not far from us. We were outside of Paris. I called him up. I said, "Listen, I think my daughter China has something. Would you work with her? She wants to write some music. she wants to learn about producing. Would you work with her? So he would come and pick her up and she would spend weekends with he and his wife and their baby and he had his own studio. So he showed her how to produce all all of the stuff about producing and then China. Um so she learned all of that and then I was working on a deal with Virgin Records um at the time and uh I had said on a television show that I want I always wanted to be a rock singer because I did and I was with Electra Records. Um this is way back in the day in the late 70s. So, and I had said to them, you know, I really want to do rock and they were like, "Oh, no, you're black. You can't do rock. You know, you know, you do your jazz." And I'm like, "Okay, fine." But so they heard this, somebody from Virgin heard this and then they approached me says, "We want to give you an album deal to do rock music." Really? So, yes. So, I'm working on this deal and it's, you know, when you work on these deals, it can be like almost a year.

Marcus Miller: Yeah.

Dee Bridgewater: You know, to get it done. So, we get it done. It's taken almost a year. I go in to sign and of course, it's costly because, you know, you've got your attorneys working on it for you. And uh and then the record label has their attorneys working on it on their side. And I sit down and they were like, "Oh, we're so happy. You know, let's let's start. Here's the papers." And I said, "Gentlemen, I've decided I don't want to do this." And they're like me and you know di it's not possible. I said well but listen and I had brought with me a cassette of China doing this music. I said but I think it would be nice if you listen to this. And I slid I slid the cassette across the table and they were like you. I said, "Well, this is" I said, "This is my daughter." I said, "And I don't usually do this, and I would not do this except I really believe she has potential. I will not say anything about it, but I think you should listen and I think you should sign her." And they listened and a week later they called me back and they said, "You are right. We will sign her."

Marcus Miller: Wow.

Dee Bridgewater: So, this is how China started at 16. And um her first uh big hit was a song she wrote called Time. And um do you remember uh what was his name? Je a really famous videographer. He would do videos. Jean Paul I I'll have to look it up. I'm having a a brain freeze. But she got this very famous videographer who had refused to do my video. Mandino. Mandino. Jean. on to do her video.

Marcus Miller: Really?

Dee Bridgewater: Yeah. So, China has been recording since she was 16. China started her own TV show with a friend of hers for um a TV station called um M MCM at the time. And um and she started that they started that when she was 17. She wasn't out of high school.

Marcus Miller: Wow.

Dee Bridgewater: And so, China's just been at it. And the thing that is wonderful with China is um I told her I said listen when you start I am not going to be behind you right I want you to do this on your own right so that you know that it has come from you. Yes. so I'm not going to say that I'm your mother I'm not doing any of that. I want you to do it I'm not going to even critique you or help you with your singing style. You're going to learn all of this on your own and this is what has happened.

Marcus Miller: was she okay with that or was she like mom Oh, I was a tough I was a tough mama. You were a tough mama.

Dee Bridgewater: I was tough. So, she had to be okay cuz there was no other way. And then she's she's got her own um she does radio. I used to set her up. Uh there was um Jazz FM in the UK. Yes. And I did my show and then my job at the end of my show was to set up China Moses.

Marcus Miller: Oh, I love it.

Dee Bridgewater: Get ready. Y'all ain't ready for China Moses. Take it away, China. You know, stuff like that.

Marcus Miller: Oh, I love it. I love it. Oh, man. That's You know, so many parents have difficulty trying to figure out the balance between giving their kids support. Yeah. And not overdoing it. Yes. Where they're not doing the hard work cuz the hard work is part of it. Uhhuh. Do we have Do we I'm sorry to interrupt. Do we have any Cuz what I know our time is gone. Do we have a couple of questions that we can ask Bridgewater? Anybody? Do we have a mic? Just wait for the wait for the mic because we're. Here comes Irene. Irene is coming.

Audience Member 1 (Michael Landram): Here she is, sir. Yes. My My name is Michael Landram and the reason reason I'm saying that is give you my full name is I saw an interview or something recently with you where you were talking about Thad Jones. I was fortunate enough to be at the Village Vanguard when you and John Fattis were both introduced to his orchestra.

Dee Bridgewater: Well, let me correct you because I came into the orchestra a little before John did. did because I replaced a singer named um Mel Dancy. Mel Dancy had been their singer with the Thad Jones Mewis Orchestra and I was literally I would go because my husband, my first husband, Cecil Bridgewwater, was in the band. John Fattis came in after I had been hired. But at any rate, go ahead.

Audience Member 1 (Michael Landram): Okay. And you mentioned that this was a humorous, like I said, I don't know if it was an interview or a radio show. I've seen in the last like six weeks. Oh. but anyway, you were talking about how he how Thead Jones did nicknames for people. Well, I was fortunate enough that we beca him and I be became friends because my name and he and you had mentioned in the article that he takes makes nicknames for you and his nickname for me was middle linebacker because of the initials of my name. And I love it. I was I was young and impressionable and I'm like I loved the band and I would come from Chicago to come see see the band about three or four times a year. And he we made a friendship and he told me he says he asked me for my phone number and stuff and gave me his phone number. He says call me whenever you want and let me know when you're coming to New York to see me and stuff and he he called me one time I was at home and he said uh is this middle linebacker and I was just wondering if you had other really interesting stories about Thad Jones and Mel Lewis.

Dee Bridgewater: Um I have I have wonderful stories about that. Um because I became very very close with Thad that Thad called me Renion. Renan was my name. So from I don't know. Oh okay. I don't know. He just he said Renan and I was like okay I guess that's me. That's me. And in French is is kidney. And I was like I still don't make no sense. It none of it makes sense. But you know um stories about that I have so many stories about that. But he um I will just sum it up to say that um for me my music school because I didn't have any any musical education. I came along with that era where learning by ear was accepted and it was kind of the thing and So they called he also called me big ears you know because he would do things uh when I would perform with them. I don't know if you well he would changing up an arrangement as it was being played. So he would say to the band they'd be playing and he said we're going to go back to letter C. We're going to go back to Right on the spot. We're going back to letter F. And he would do that with me while I'm singing and you're like, "What is and he would just say, "Oh, Renan, just listen. You know when to come in." And and so that that was one of the things that that Thead did. Another thing he did because um I was supposed to record with them. I forget the name of that album, but I I go down to Philly to do this album with them and and then they say, "Oh, we're not going to have you on the album." I was crushed. So, um they were doing the album um The Great One. What's the album called? Is that the name of the album? At any rate, the song The Great One. I'm sitting in the studio because Cecil's still in the band. John Fattis is in the band. Um, and I'm sitting with Quincy Jones because Quincy and Thad were good friends. And and so I'm sitting next to Quincy and Quincy is like, "Well, Dee, how how come you're not singing?" And I'm like, and Thad comes home and he says, "Runan, I want you to sing on this next song. I'm like, "Dad, I don't know the song." He said, "Just listen. I'll point to you, you sing, and when I say cut, you cut out."

Marcus Miller: Wow. Wow.

Dee Bridgewater: And I said, "Well, what am I supposed to sing?" He says, "You'll figure it out." And so I did that song, The Great One, you know, doing Wow. improvisation.

Marcus Miller: He was one of the greatest arrangers, wasn't he? In the history of jazz. Don't you agree? Thad Jones. Thad Jones. Yes. One of the greatest arrangers. Um, I think we have time for one or two more. So, first of all, I want to just recognize your elegance.

Audience Member 2: Oh, thank you. Yes. And that said, I have always thought of you as aging, well, and full of hell.

Dee Bridgewater: Look out. Can I can I borrow that?

Audience Member 2: And my and my question is, yes, ma'am. What are your secrets or your philosophies? You know, I look around. We're all, you know, of a certain age.

Dee Bridgewater: Of a certain age.

Audience Member 2: And I'm so eager to hear, you know, your mind is sharp, your body's sharp, you know, like what are your secrets or or or your recommendations or, you know, however your mottos, whatever you however you want to land on that.

Dee Bridgewater: I don't have any secrets. I I I believe that I am very fortunate to be in the music business because music heals and so music has been a very healing force throughout my life. And And also I think um like I had mentioned earlier who my idols were um I have always been very mindful not to you know to eat well to take care of myself you know to get the proper sleep. I don't do anything for my voice but get the proper sleep. I had learned early on about breathing properly and how to project my voice and that was what saved me and made my voice different when I did the is because I had been working with the Thad Jones Mel Lewis orchestra and we have there was crappy there was almost no sound system at the Village Vanguard and those men did not they didn't lower anything for me so I had to learn how to protect my voice over all of those instruments so um I think I just want to be an example for all women of a certain age so that you all know that anything is possible. It is all about our mindset. Okay. So, I will when I'm performing I'll stoop. I'll go down and I can still get up, you know. And so,

Marcus Miller: going down part is easy.

Dee Bridgewater: Going down is easy. Getting up. You got to use some major muscles and and as you get older, you go, "Oh, snap. I got to really use some muscles, you know." But so, just staying fit, keeping your mind mind sharp by by reading by by by I don't know I think because I am constantly going all over Europe and I'm exposed to so many different cultures and I have to learn how to adapt in all of these different situations that has been very helpful for me but I think it is all about our mindset so we have to each decide how we want to be how we want to grow how we want to go into this new age of agism, you know. So, I have decided I want to stay young as long as I can. I want to stay young at heart. I want to stay young mentally. You know, I surround myself with young people. You know, when I go to hang out, the people I call are my children's age and younger. So, that kind of stuff. But eating well, getting good sleep, taking care of yourself, Okay, we have one more question in the middle there. Yes, right right here.

Audience Member 3 (Gloria): Uh, Dee, I'm Gloria and one of the things that I most admire about you is your generosity. Could you tell us about your woodshed ne network? Oh. Which you give your gifts back to the next generation.

Dee Bridgewater: Oh, thanks, Gloria. Um, I had a a wonderful program that I I started called the Woodshed Network. I started in in in uh 2019 for young women in jazz. because I had been on the faculty of the Betty Carter Jazz Ahead program which is was I don't know anymore. We don't know it. It was at the Kennedy Center and um and and while I that's all we'll say about that. We have to leave it alone. And this is in past years and um I was on this faculty and there were three women in this program. It is a program for for young musicians to come and work on composition work and it's a two-eek program and one of the women was had been very sick and we didn't know this but she would be in in her different sessions and then she would just cry and then she would leave and I saw this ridicule and then there was another woman who is is now in my band, but she was friends with a fellow musician who was a gentleman and he would escort her back to the hotel in the evenings. Well, another person on the faculty turned that into a whole situation and tried to put her down and she was upset and I had these women come to my hotel room towards the end and then I found this out about what was happening and I spoke up. I of course blew the whistle. on the individual um the president who was Deborah Rut Rutner um was upset and came in and spoke and the that person was put out. But I realized at that time the importance of creating a safe space for young women in jazz and that is how it happened. Um and it was a kind of confluence of things because I was approached by a woman who was with the Doris Duke foundation and her name is Moren Knighton and she flew down to New Orleans where I was living and and we went to dinner and she says, "You know, I want I would I would like to do a program with you. I I can get some funding for you if you have any ideas." And I shared with her that idea of creating this program. And so that's how it started. I had the funding from the Doris Duke Foundation. Um we uh my oldest daughter does my management and my oldest daughter, her name is Tani Bridgewater and she's has been my manager since 1999 and we are still like this now. She she comes in and she produces like I have a new album out and she's she did the production on that. I said, "Telli, I'm going to be in in the room recording." I said, "Would you come and make sure I don't want to divide and have to go into go sing and then run back and run back into the control room and listen and and I said, "You can do that." So, this is where we have developed now. But so the the Woodshed network was created out of that situation and the purpose of the Woodshed network is to was to because we have now decided we're not going to bring it back. Um uh was to give women all of the tools that they need from a business point of view. I did not deal with their music. I didn't even know what their music was. But to give them all of the tools that they need to have successful careers. Um and uh we had uh programs that were um were headed by other women. So we wanted them to see women in important positions in the music business in all the different aspects of the business and then we wanted to create a kind of network for these women and that's what we were able to do and that's what the woodshed network was about. Yes. Yes.

Marcus Miller: So, unfortunately, we're out of time. Dee, we could do this for another hour and a half.

Dee Bridgewater: We could. Oh, we could, Marcus. We could talk.

Marcus Miller: It's a pleasure talking to you and getting inside that amazing brain of yours. Give it up y'all for Dee Bridgewater.

Dee Bridgewater: Thank you. Thank you, Marcus.

Marcus Miller: Dee Bridgewater. Thank you all for coming. Thank you so much. All right. This was beautiful. And we'll see you around the ship. Yes.

Lee Mergner (Host): Isn't Dee an amazing storyteller? You know, for several years, I've told her that she should write a memoir. And now you know why. Because this conversation was just a fraction of the story of her life. And Dee's insight, wit, and intelligence makes that story so compelling. Dee will return to sail with us in 2026 on the Jazz Cruise, which will also feature Katherine Russell, Ron Carter, Pakito de Rivera, Chucho Valdez, Kurt Elling, Anat Cohen, Janice Seagull, Monte Alexand Alexander, Matthew Whitaker, John Pitzerelli, Veronica Swift, and dozens more. It really is straight ahead jazz heaven. It sails to the Caribbean on the Celebrity Summit January 27th through February 3rd, departing Fort Lauderdale with stops in Coco K and San Juan. Go to thejazzcruise.com to learn more. Our theme music is by Marcus Miller from his song High Life on his album Aphrodesia on Blueote. And thanks to Josh the Soundman in the Cosmo dining room for capturing this and other talks from the journey of Jazz Cruz. We hope you subscribe to Jazz Cruz's conversations on iTunes. Spotify or wherever you get your podcast so you won't miss any episodes. You can also listen to our back catalog of more than 100 interviews from past sellings. Thanks for listening.