109: Ravi Coltrane with Marcus Miller

Ravi Coltrane with Marcus Miller

Marcus Miller interviews Ravi Coltrane about his musical evolution and the dual legacy of his parents, Alice and John Coltrane. This insightful and candid talk, recorded live on the Journey of Jazz cruise, covers the challenges of growing up under the shadow of a jazz icon and finding one's own voice through the music.

Key Takeaways

• The episode is a conversation between host Marcus Miller and guest Ravi Coltrane, focusing on Ravi's development as a jazz saxophonist.
• Ravi's father, John Coltrane, passed away in 1967 when Ravi was 2 years old, leaving Ravi to be raised by his mother, Alice Coltrane. Ravi notes that his father’s instruments are currently in his stateroom.
• Ravi began his musical journey playing the clarinet throughout junior high and high school. He switched to the soprano saxophone at age 16 after his mother gave it to him for his birthday as a hint, later moving to the tenor saxophone.
• Ravi did not initially feel pressure from his famous last name because, during the 1970s in the San Fernando Valley where he grew up, John Coltrane was still considered "underground" or "counter culture".
• The death of Ravi’s older brother, John Jr., in an automobile accident when Ravi was 17, caused a "void" that Ravi later filled by studying his father's music. Ravi began listening to his father's records to gain answers for questions asked at parties, and through this, the music "hit" him.
• Ravi worked with key members of the John Coltrane Quartet, including joining drummer Elvin Jones's band in 1991 (though he felt he was "prematurely" ready) and later working with pianist McCoy Tyner in the 2000s.
• Ravi and Marcus discuss the meaning of being "ready" to perform at a high level, noting that it means being "prepared to do the job properly" and recognizing that evolution and learning are continuous processes.

Host and Guest Info

Host: Lee Mergner (introduction), Marcus Miller (interview).
Guest: Ravi Coltrane.

This talk was recorded during the Journey of Jazz cruise. 

Marcus Miller provided the theme music, which is a clip from his song "High Life" on his album Aphrodesia on Blue Note.

The talk was captured by Brian Ratchkco and his production team.

• Listen to more episodes of Jazz Cruises Conversations on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. The back catalog contains more than a hundred interviews from past sailings.
• Theme Music: Provided by Marcus Miller from his song "High Life" on his album Aphrodesia on Blue Note.

Transcript

Jazz Cruises Conversations: Episode 109 – Ravi Coltrane with Marcus Miller

Lee Mergner (Host): Hi, welcome to Jazz Cruises Conversations. I'm your host, Lee Mergner. This week's episode is yet another talk from the Journey of Jazz Cruise earlier this year. You know, it's a real winner. Our host Marcus Miller interviewed Ravi Coltrane about his evolution as a jazz saxophonist and about his relationship with both his mother, Alice Coltrane, who raised him, and his father, John Coltrane, whose outside legacy he had to deal with. Enough said. Listen up.

Testing. Testing. Good. Good afternoon everybody. How's everybody doing?

Marcus Miller: You guys enjoying San Francisco? Who went uh wine tasting? Okay, good. So, you guys are in pretty good shape then. All right. I'm really excited to uh introduce this gentleman to you guys. He's one of my favorite musicians, although I don't get to see him that often. So, I'm really glad we were trying to catch up back there and I said, "Why don't we just catch up in front of everybody?". So, that's what we're going to do. Give it up y'all for Ravi Coltrane. Ravi Coltrane. Mr. C, how you doing, man?

Ravi Coltrane: All right, have a seat, please.

Marcus Miller: So, uh, man, it's so nice to have you here, man. You You just got in this morning.

Ravi Coltrane: Just this morning. Yes.

Marcus Miller: All right. How are you doing?

Ravi Coltrane: The seasickness has not started.

Marcus Miller: He said he's not seasick sick yet. I'm like, man, we're not even moving, you know. So, um, you know, I want to start with, um, some slight similarities. Um, you you know, Leila Hathaway, you know who she is right?

Ravi Coltrane: Yes, of course.

Marcus Miller: Uh she and her dad uh Donnie Hathaway um Donnie passed when she was very very young, right? And um my cousin, my dad's cousin was uh Winton Kelly, right? And he passed when I was like 11 or 12 before I even knew about jazz, right? I mean, at church um after the service, we'd go down to my grandfather's basement and all my dad's sisters sang and Winton would have to accompany all of them. And I would help them out banging away on E flat high at the top of the piano. I'm surprised I didn't get smacked, you know. But anyway, uh when Ila heard her dad and she got older, she said she could feel those notes in her own throat. So although he didn't, you know, I don't know if they got to sing together or he taught her anything, but she just instantly I can produce those tones, you know. And I know when I heard Winton Kelly, like I said, I didn't even know about jazz and I had a classmate, Kenny Washington, right? And he he he introduced me to jazz and I said, "I have a cousin who plays jazzes". W You ever heard of Winton Kelly? And he was like, and he started pulling records off the shelf. And he made me a cassette. There was cassettes back then, you know. And he made me a cassette of everything that he had. His father had like 4,000 jazz albums. So, he made me a cassette and I just fell in love with his sound and I felt some kind of connection. So, wondering for you with the same thing with your dad. Um, when you heard it, did you did you feel some kind of connection that maybe other people haven't?

Ravi Coltrane: Um, you know, they there's something about musical families, you know, and and the traditions that get get passed down uh, you know, in a in a very uh, clear way. You know, somebody says, you know, come on, get on get on the band stand, get here and play with us.

Marcus Miller: Yeah. We just had Chucho Valdez and his 18-year-old son is playing percussion with him.

Ravi Coltrane: Yes.

Marcus Miller: And uh it was his father as well was so direct there's a direct way that can happen.

Ravi Coltrane: Completely. And then the indirect way is more of this um it's almost like a vibration there's something that you you feel and there's also something you know in Leila's uh case that she can really internally feel you know like within like like physically feel.

Marcus Miller: Yes.

Ravi Coltrane: Yes. Which is something very powerful and very very special you know with me. Um my father passed away when I was 2 years old.

Marcus Miller: Mhm.

Ravi Coltrane: I don't want to give away my age, but uh my father uh my father was born in 1926. I'm two generations younger than him.

Marcus Miller: Mhm.

Ravi Coltrane: Uh he was also in the US Navy.

Marcus Miller: That's right.

Ravi Coltrane: 1945 he was inducted in August of 1945 playing alto saxophone.

Marcus Miller: Playing alto saxophone. Yes. Yeah.

Ravi Coltrane: Uh and he was stationed in Hawaii and I guess we all know what what took place in the Pacific theater during that time. Uh and so all of his some of his earliest recordings uh well his first recordings were done as part of uh being in the Navy band. Uh so I mean his career really starts about 10 years later, 1955, uh when he starts with Miles. Uh and by 1960 he's starting his own groups and by 1967 he expires at at 40. And uh and I was uh born in ' 65, you know. So uh my mother Alice raised me, you know, and there was something about uh uh the spirit, my father's spirit and however you want to define that was in the house. It was there, you know, maybe the absence. I guess that was the thing that we could feel, you know, the the you know, the void, you know, the space, you know. Uh so there's I guess ways to react to that, response to that, you know. Um, I started playing the clarinet uh when I was six. You start started on clarinet.

Marcus Miller: I sure did start clarinet. Yeah. Yeah.

Ravi Coltrane: Yes. That's the best instrument, man.

Marcus Miller: Yeah. Oh. Oh, tap on the clarinet. Yeah. Where was it? In California. Where did you

Ravi Coltrane: In California? Yeah. I was born on Long Island and and by '72 we were uh Okay. We moved to California. My mother's sister is a songwriter. Um And she used to write for Mottown.

Marcus Miller: Oh, okay. Yeah.

Ravi Coltrane: And when Barry Gordy moved the company out west,

Marcus Miller: Right. Right.

Ravi Coltrane: She went out west and uh sort of beckoned my my my mother to to come out west. You know, my uh my mother was widowed at 30. Four kids and uh and we stayed in Long Island for about uh three uh about four years, four or five years after my father passed away. And I think it was time my mom was like, my aunt was like, you know, Come out of here. My aunt was Marilyn Mcloud. She wrote some songs for Neita Baker. Do you remember?

Marcus Miller: She wrote Same Old Love. Yeah. Yeah. And uh she wrote uh Love Hangover for

Ravi Coltrane: Got the Sweetest.

Marcus Miller: That's right. Woo. That was a gem. For Diana Ross.

Ravi Coltrane: Yeah. For Diana Ross. Her uh writing partner was a woman named Pam Sawyer.

Marcus Miller: Yes. I now I see the names. Yes. Yeah. Right. Right there on the label. Mottown was not great at at at listing the names of the of the musicians. But we we'll get there.

Ravi Coltrane: But the songwriters that

Marcus Miller: Songwriters got credit. Yes. Absolutely. Definitely. And um the songwriters were under contract along with the the artists at that time. And I heard that they used to um you know Barry Gordy was not above pitting one songwriter against the other saying this one has a hit. You better come up with something good. You know it was like kind of like a little competitive thing that that you know produced results. Yeah.

Ravi Coltrane: Definitely worked. It definitely worked. So So yeah. So so the spirit It was there. Um, did you like the clarinet or did you just like music?

Ravi Coltrane: I loved music. I thought music was uh I was always fascinated by it, you know. And um you know my mother was very uh she was very kind and very um you know she had a very you know um I don't want to just use the word free sort of nature but she was just sort of willing to let her children find their own directions. You know, she wasn't here to say you you have to do this and music is the thing you need to do and forget about that. And uh right I think it if it was something positive that we were doing, she would be there. Yes. And uh so I um it was the first day of junior high school and uh and this is when we had arts in the public schools.

Marcus Miller: Yeah. Back way back in in the past when They used to have music. It's a real shame that we don't have anymore. I think it's a crime to humanity, honestly.

Ravi Coltrane: Uh, but first day of of junior high school and I was, you know, signed up for band and I really wanted to play trumpet, but I showed up late.

Marcus Miller: Oh,

Ravi Coltrane: and all the trumpets were gone.

Marcus Miller: All the trumpets were gone.

Ravi Coltrane: And the only thing left were a bunch of plastic clarinets.

Marcus Miller: Oh my goodness. I am in New York. I I grew up in uh in Brooklyn and Queens. In New York, they offered the trumpet, the clarinet, and the drums. I wanted to play the drums, but we lived in an apartment, and my dad was like, "No way". So, I was like, and and they they had already given us, you know, those wooden recorders. They had already given us that. So, my dad was, you already know how to, you know, I was like, man, the clarinet. Ah, but I love music so much that it was okay, you know, I was going to use whatever instrument, you know. So, um, uh, did you immediately take to it? No. Wait, more better. question. Did your Did your music teacher know who the heck you were?

Ravi Coltrane: This was the the

Marcus Miller: That would intimidate a music teacher, don't you think, a little bit?

Ravi Coltrane: This was the the 70s in the San Frernando Valley. Nobody knew who John Coltrane was.

Marcus Miller: Can you believe that?

Ravi Coltrane: Yeah. Things things have definitely changed. But but then th those musical figures were still um a bit underground, a big counter culture and certainly not mainstream. Uh so it' be every now and then, maybe every two or three years, somebody would hear my last name and they go cold train.

Marcus Miller: That rings a bell.

Ravi Coltrane: Isn't that a famous blues singer? It's like, okay, you know. Wow. So, so there wasn't any real I didn't really feel those types of pressures at that time. It was just my my interest in the music and and Uh and music is is beautiful. It's it's something very uh it it raises the consciousness and the spirits and and and and it's fun, you know. Uh so I I did enjoy the clarinet very much.

Marcus Miller: And how long before you added the the saxs to your repertoire?

Ravi Coltrane: I played the clarinet all through junior high school and all through high school. It was in the marching band. I wanted to play drums in the marching band.

Marcus Miller: See, of course,

Ravi Coltrane: cuz the drum line had much more fun than the than the rest of us. You know, you weren't getting any girls playing the clarinet.

Marcus Miller: No, they were not interested at all. But the the dudes in the drum line, they seem to Yeah. Yeah. They they seem to be having fun. Yeah.

Ravi Coltrane: Yeah. They they they did pretty good. And so after after high school,

Ravi Coltrane: it was right around high school. Um my mother again, she was just, you know, she had almost a hands-off approach with us in regard to uh the music. When I told her, you know, I I was playing ated school. She said, "Okay, let me make sure you get a good instrument, you know, and u and and a teacher, you know, private uh teacher". So, she again, she was right there to encourage it and support it, you know. Uh but it was only when I turned 16, it was the maybe the biggest hint that she dropped on me, you know. For my 16th birthday, she brought me a a soprano saxophone.

Marcus Miller: Right. I'm not saying anything. I'm just saying. I'm not saying, you know what I'm saying, son? But just Yeah, that other horn is straight. Here's another straight horn.

Ravi Coltrane: Yeah. Yeah. The clarinet and the soprano are pretty pretty close. You might not notice. And and again, this was the ' 70s back in the San Frernando Valley, so a lot of people thought I'd gotten my clarinet goldplated.

Marcus Miller: Right. No, that's not a goldplated sax. No, it's not a clarinet. Wow, man.

Ravi Coltrane: So, I Yeah, I started I started um that was the first saxophone I played, the soprano, which I would not encourage anyone to begin on the soprano sound.

Marcus Miller: It's very difficult.

Ravi Coltrane: It's Yeah, it's tricky. Uh but just looking at that instrument, you know, it inspires you when you open up that case and you see it, you know, you you you and it is shiny. It is absolutely, you know, and you you want to connect with it and and and and be a part of of part of it in lots of ways, you know. Um you know, and and jazz music, you know, I um you know, I grew up listening to our MP music and and popular music and symphonic music. I was a big fan of symphonic music and for a while I thought I might just try to continue with the clarinet and study classical music more formally and be in an orchestra somewhere. You know, I was a quiet kid. I used to say shy. I I say quiet now, you know. Uh I think there's a difference. Um uh but I thought that would be a nice life just to be in the clarinet section and in some orchestra some

Marcus Miller: man I thought the same thing and at the end of high school I was on my way to the conservatory for clarinet and I happened to pass by a mirror. And I saw the afro and I saw the platform shoes and I saw the clarinet and something ain't right in this b****** this just don't go together you know. And I was already messing around a little bit on the bass and the bass. Uh there's so many opportunities for a bass particularly back then. Everybody needed a bass. Not everybody needed a clarinet. So um so that was my but it was but I was going to uh on that path. I played Mozart's clarinet concerto to get into into college, you know. Um so when did you leave the valley? Because it seems like uh nobody was there a big jazz scene going on. How did you get

Ravi Coltrane: Nobody stays in the valley. Unless you really want to, I guess. Yeah. Uh my sister is still there. My my younger brother. They're they're still there in Woodland Hills.

Marcus Miller: Who's the equestrian in your family?

Ravi Coltrane: Uh the horseback rider. Yeah.

Marcus Miller: Michelle. Michelle. Yeah. Cuz our daughter is an equestrian and and they went they they didn't know, but they were right there together in uh wherever it is that she was riding in the valley. My wife will know.

Ravi Coltrane: Oh, okay. So they they they knew about some

Marcus Miller: Yeah. some horseback riding coal trains out there. Absolutely. Okay. Nobody else knew who who they were except me. I'm saying, "Wait, stop. Did you say Cold Train?" So, uh uh So, so when did you uh run into other people other jazz musicians?

Ravi Coltrane: Um you know, I while I was in school there was I mean there was there was no real jazz scene that I was aware of. My mother kind of also was she was retired from uh uh any type of jazz uh touring or performance. Her, you know, she her early records uh uh come out around 1968 69 her impulse records. And uh she made great music during that time.

Marcus Miller: Fantastic unique very unique recordings. Yeah, absolutely.

Ravi Coltrane: Um and maybe around 1976 she signs with Warner Brothers and she made about four or five albums for them. And Uh, the last one was a live record. Something about the live records to get out of the contract to finish that.

Marcus Miller: All right. I need more. I I I owe you one more. Just put mics up at my gig and keep that one. Yeah.

Ravi Coltrane: But, uh, that was it for her. After '79, she said, "I'm I'm I'm changing my focus". And she she spent the rest of her life kind of, uh, you know, devoted to her spiritual and religious work, you know. So, um, I didn't grow up around musicians really. They were they weren't coming to the house. My mother wasn't really doing gigs. I remember going to gigs with her when I was younger. Uh but as I got into the music, my mother was moving more into her spiritual direction. Yeah. So, I didn't really start hanging out with with with cats who could really play until I went to college. Until I went to

Marcus Miller: Where'd you go to college?

Ravi Coltrane: I went to a place called the California Institute of the Arts. Uh in Valencia, California. It's about 45 minutes north of uh Los Angeles. Um there was a moment that um my uh there were three boys. My father had three sons. He was married before he uh met Alice Mcloud uh in 1963 at Birdland.

Marcus Miller: Mhm. Uh at Birdland, you say?

Ravi Coltrane: In Birdland. They met.

Marcus Miller: They met at Birdland. Wow. Yeah.

Ravi Coltrane: Um my father's band uh was performing and they used to do double bills in those days. And my my mother was playing in the band of the vibrophone as Terry Gibbs. I'm sure you guys know Terry Gibbs.

Marcus Miller: Mhm.

Ravi Coltrane: Uh and they were there for a whole week and my mother would tell me the story how again my father was quiet, my mother was quiet and uh so there wasn't a lot of words exchanged. And um when my father would go on break, he wouldn't put his horn down, you know. Legendary. He played through the through the breaks, you know. He take like a 20-minute break or something. He's still playing still have his horn out somewhere backstage. And she at some point re uh recognized that he was serenading her. He was slowly kind of following her around backstage.

Marcus Miller: Wow.

Ravi Coltrane: And she said that he was playing a a song um called Always. You know, Frank Sinatra, I think, sung that I'll remember you always with a love that's true. Always. Uh It's got a pretty bridge that song. But um um so uh I've lost track. Where she he was follow He was following her during the break at at Birdland playing always. See that's what happen with musicians. We start thinking about the song and then everything else goes away. Wait, where was I? I was in the bridge of always. Yeah. Um so but but you being being around other jazz musicians who could play uh the Institute of the Arts, California Institute of the Arts. Yes. And um um but man, there's so many people who I put it this way. There's a song of your dad's called 262. And I just heard a version. We were on the road last summer and somebody said, "You got to hear what Ravi did to 262". I mean, you destroyed it, added to it, added a hiccup in it. that I still haven't figured out. It's just so beautiful, man. And it's just like, you know, people who are casual, they would think, oh, well, you know, dad just sat him down, you know, and forced him to figure out how to play the horn. It's it's not that at all.

Ravi Coltrane: I wish.

Marcus Miller: Yeah. So,

Ravi Coltrane: it's still a beautiful dream for me.

Marcus Miller: And you But you studied him. What does that feel like to study? I mean, it's clear that he's a major influence.

Ravi Coltrane: I think when I when I discover the music. I fell in love with the music, you know. You know, I the music was kind of always there in the same way that spirit was there. I guess the the music was sort of the representation. The records, the LPS were the kind of the representation of the spirit being in the house, you know. Yeah. In the same way as the scent of burning incense being in the house, you know, you're kind of taking these these things in, you know, they're affecting your senses, you know. Um, so I always heard the music, you know, my mom would play those records, you know, but they weren't they didn't really hit me. They didn't really penetrate me until later, until when it was more of a discovery, you know. Um, I had an appreciation for jazz music and uh I remember my mom had this Charlie Parker LP box sets, all the dial recordings, and I those records just floored me. Yeah. Um, and um There were three boys. I think this is where I was going. My older brother, John Jr., uh uh was killed in an automobile accident when he was 18. I was 17. Right after he graduated high school, he played bass, too.

Marcus Miller: Oh, wow.

Ravi Coltrane: He was playing bass, but I think he really wanted to play football. Yeah. Yeah. He was on the football team, but he also played in the in the concert band when when it wasn't football season.

Marcus Miller: Mhm.

Ravi Coltrane: I was in the marching band and he was on the football team. So, you know which which which one was nerd and which one was the, you know, the jock. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Um, you know, and so, um, you know, that was a a big, uh, a a shock, a shift. It it it kind of shaped reshaped everything for me when my older brother died. And it was a maybe a few years where I I'd say that I was floating. You know, I just wasn't really sure where I was going and and what the purpose of any of it was anymore. You know, um I was really big into film and photography and I I I remember telling my mom I wanted to go to film school. And uh you know, my mother again was very open and free and but that was the only time I could see just a small little hint of disappointment be behind her eyes. Just a small one, you know. Um you know, again, I was still trying to figure many many things out. Um, but this was the time I started to uh I was going out. I had, you know, my little odd jobs. I worked at the movie theater and then I worked over here. I like to have my own money and get out of the house and have my own little friendship group and everything and was going to these little parties, you know. And people who were a little bit older was who knew about jazz were coming up to me asking me about this record, that record, this song, that and I didn't have the answers for that. So, I started started putting on the records, my father's records, so I would have answers to these questions at parties.

Marcus Miller: Just to be cool at the party.

Ravi Coltrane: Yes, absolutely. But by doing so, the the music hit me, you know. It it it hit me at that point, you know. Uh and I re realized many many years later that there was a void, another void, and that was left by my my brother that the music filled, my father's music filled, you know.

Marcus Miller: Wow. And And uh and I just started going out, you know, finding recordings I had never even heard before. I hadn't heard the recordings that he did with Monk. I hadn't heard a lot of the records he recorded for Prestige. Yeah. You know, and I fell in love with with those records. They're still u my go-to, you know. Yeah. Um you know, but I I fell in love with the music. I fell in love with saxophone, you know. I'll tell you um my dad passed about 7 years ago and at the service you know everyone comes from different parts of his life to pay respects. People who hadn't seen my dad in 40 years you know they were there and when I walked in the door they looked at me and just started crying because I look exactly like it looks like my mom had nothing to do with it. You know I look exactly like my dad and when I walked in the door of the the funeral home, people just started I think it was like seeing that he's alive again. So when you're playing Ravi with McCoy Tiner, right? What is McCoy feeling, man? I mean that must it just must be I mean and you got to deal with that. You know what I mean? What was that experience like? Well, what do you think it was like for McCoy and then what was it like for you? By the way, McCoy Tyner, for the three of you who don't know was John Coltrane's piano player in his most famous uh quartet. So

Ravi Coltrane: um I I I can answer that but I think I have to answer it by speaking about playing with Elvin Jones.

Marcus Miller: Okay. Same same thing. Elvin was a drummer in this group. So

Ravi Coltrane: and Rashid Ali.

Marcus Miller: Yes.

Ravi Coltrane: And Roy Haynes and Reggie Workman.

Marcus Miller: Reggie Workman. Yeah. Um the whole generation, right?

Ravi Coltrane: I I mean, um, I wasn't ready to play with any of them, honestly. Particularly Elvin. I was still in school when Elvin called me to be in his band. Um, and I I told him, you know, I said, I'm I'm not not ready.

Marcus Miller: Mhm. No one ever calls me ever, but I knew that was going to happen. Don't call me now. Never call me at work. Don't call me at work. You know, I

Marcus Miller: So, you told him you weren't you weren't ready. You you felt clearly that it wasn't the time yet?

Ravi Coltrane: You know, I um Elvin had come to LA to play at uh the old Catalinas when Catalinas was on uh Catalina's Bar and Grill when it was on Kanga. And I don't think he had been in LA for about seven years. Everybody was really excited. And um I had met Wallace Rooney, uh the great great trumpeter who's no longer with us. I had met him on some early trips. I would go to to New York uh on my summer breaks and uh Rashid Ali would take me to all the clubs and the jam sessions and introduce me to all the the cats. And so I had met Wallace when Wallace was playing in Elvin Jones's band and Tony Williams' band. And I'd pick Wallace up at the airport, drive him to his hotel, I'd take him to the club and I would I would watch both sets all week long. And uh and he was there with Elvin and maybe the last time Elvin saw me I was maybe down here or something. So his eyes were kind of like this the the whole week. Sure. And uh he he didn't really know what to say. I didn't know what to say. I was just very excited. But by the end of the week uh he said you know I I hear you're playing I hear you're playing saxophone. I said yes. You know u he said well how's it going? I said well I'm I'm still in school and studying. And I think he said, "Are you" He said, "Are you ready?". And I said, "I'm I'm still in school". And then he said, "Well, okay. You'll you'll know. You'll know when you're ready, you know". And it was about a year later, I got a call from Ko, Elvin's Elvin's wife, and she said, "Uh, are you available to play some gigs in a couple of years from now?".

Marcus Miller: A couple He's booking you way in advance.

Ravi Coltrane: Yes. Wow. And I said, "A couple of years? Yes. I'm I'm free. I'm I think I could do

Marcus Miller: Wait, let me check.

Ravi Coltrane: Yes, I checked the calendar. Uh, and then they said, "Are you available now?". And I and then I said, "Well, you know, I'm I'm still working my thing out. I'm still learning". So, El put Elvin on the phone and then we started to talk and and uh you know, I told him I'm I was not ready and blah blah blah. And he said, "Well, I want to help you. I want to help you get ready". So, um you know, you can't really say no twice to Elvin Jones.

Marcus Miller: Right. Right. Wow.

Ravi Coltrane: So, I started in his group very very prematurely in 1991 and worked with him for two years. Uh, and I I could recognize what what the motivation was for them. Obviously, obviously, you know, John had affected them so deeply and so powerfully. I think they were compelled to embrace me in in some type of way.

Marcus Miller: Sure. Of course. Yeah.

Ravi Coltrane: Uh, so I would say that this this It was the same for McCoy. Uh though I did work with McCoy much much later. U you know Elvin was you know I was '91. It was the beginning of my career and and the big gigs that I did with with McCoy were more in the in the 2000s and and things like that, you know. So

Marcus Miller: listening to Elvin Jones on the records and playing with Elvin Jones behind you have to be two completely different things, right? What does it feel like when you You got that storm happening behind you on the drums?

Ravi Coltrane: Honestly, it feels like you're you're rising off the stage. It's either he's rising off the stage or you're all rising off the stage together. Um I remember the first time that I really played with him. I sat in with him at the musicians union in in LA. Uh and before then I was, you know, again, still in school, so I was playing with drummers who were closer to my level. right? Still learning young cats. And uh there was some point in the music I was soloing and Alvin was playing behind me and he started to levitate. Yes. And in my mind I was thinking this is it. Yes. This is it. This is what it's supposed to feel like when we're doing this, you know. Uh it was something I'd never felt or experienced before because suddenly you have a a master drummer uh uh supporting you and playing behind you and and pushing you and and lifting you up. Yeah. Um so yeah, it was that was uh one of the most beautiful most scariest times of my life. Alvin was a one-of-a-kind.

Marcus Miller: Yeah, we miss him terribly. Absolutely. And it's it's amazing because in that John Coltrane quartet, each one of them became a major influence on all the musicians who played that instrument after them. You know, piano players playing like McCoy, right? The drummers playing like Elvin, every saxophone playing like John Coltrane, right? How does that feel, man? Um to to watch like if you play jazz, even if you're not influenced by John Coltrane, you had to work hard not to be influenced by John Coltrane because he's everywhere.

Ravi Coltrane: And if you're playing a certain style, it's like unavoidable. Mhm.

Marcus Miller: So, I mean, do you ever sit in the back of like a a club and go, "Man, that ain't it. That ain't it". I mean, you know it, man. You feel it. You're like, "Man, that's that that that ain't the real thing". You know, I'm not going to make you answer that. Hey, do we have time for for a couple of questions? Somebody said yes. Who doesn't have the authority to say yes, but he has a microphone. But he has a microphone. Okay. Do you guys have any questions? Any any questions for Mr. Robbie Cold Train?

Audience Member 1: So, just wait for the mic cuz I we're recording so I have to get there.

Marcus Miller: Oh, we're recording. Have to put my You want to change any of your answers? My radio voice on. Hold on. We'll lower the diaphragm just a little bit. Sorry. I didn't mean to go. Right. No, it's beautiful. This is wonderful. Um, you talked about that you went from clarinet, but we didn't quite hear the transition. You went from the sac soprano, but not to the alto. So, how did that transition happen?

Ravi Coltrane: I I started on soprano, which is a again not not the best saxophone to start on. Uh, and then I went to the tenor. I went to the tenor saxophone uh the year after that. Something about the tenor saxophone, if doublers will pick up a soprano usually.

Marcus Miller: Yeah, those two kind of go together. skip over the alto and go either from the tenor to the soprano. Yeah, they're in the same key. Same key of B flat. You don't have to relearn all the songs you learned in a different key. Yeah. No, no, no, no, no, no.

Audience Member 1: She asked, did somebody push you to the tenor? Encourage you.

Ravi Coltrane: John Coltrane did. Sunny Stit, Sunny Rollins, Wayne Sharter, Joe Henderson, George Coleman.

Marcus Miller: Did you ever meet George Coleman?

Ravi Coltrane: Oh yeah. Yes. Yes. Absolutely. Absolutely. I could not wait to move to New York. I could not

Marcus Miller: sure you couldn't move to New York because all of these casts were playing.

Ravi Coltrane: They were You could go from Sweet Basil to the Village Vanguard to Fat Tuesdays to the Village Gate and

Marcus Miller: and then after hours where would you go?

Ravi Coltrane: Well, Bradley's

Marcus Miller: Bradley. There you go. You could see all of your heroes, all of the all of the the the the great men and women who who

Ravi Coltrane: that was a magical A magical time, wasn't it?

Ravi Coltrane: It was. It was. You know, and I got there in '91. And usually I think when anybody gets to New York, somebody's saying, "Oh, you should have been you just missed the loft scene or you just missed the scene".

Marcus Miller: No, but you but you caught a You caught the end of it, man.

Ravi Coltrane: I got to Yeah. I got to see uh Joe Henderson play.

Marcus Miller: Yes.

Ravi Coltrane: Regularly with Freddy Huard at Fat Tuesdays. Tony Williams would be at Sweet Basil. No, Tony would be at the Vanguard and Art Blakey would be at Sweet Basil, you know.

Marcus Miller: And these are all all within like 10 walking blocks of each other. This was a magical time.

Ravi Coltrane: Just during the week, just any old average week of the year, it was uh magical for me and I I could not wait to move to New York. So, um the sax, you know, the saxophone for me is the the tenor saxophone. You know, I'm a huge fan of of Charlie Parker, of course, and and Cannonball and Ornette Coleman. I do love the alto, but for me, the the the tenor is really the the main horn. We have a question here.

Audience Member 2: Uh, yes. You actually answered my question there a second ago. Next question. But no, I I played in my college jazz band in the 70s and we actually played with Sunonny Rollins. So, I was going to ask you, had you ever played with Sunonny Rollins and how was it? What was it like? He was he I I actually drove him from the airport to my college and he was a tremendous guy.

Ravi Coltrane: Yeah, he still is a tremendous tremendous man. I think one of the greatest musicians that ever ever lived. Uh I got to hear him perform many many times. Uh I played for him, you know, when he received his uh Kennedy Honors Award. I was uh part of uh that group that played uh in DC while he was sitting next to Michelle and and Barack Obama.

Marcus Miller: Yeah. You know, and uh and we were all on the stage playing for him, which was uh while before they they uh saxophonist at Kennedy Center. A long while. A long while.

Ravi Coltrane: It's going to be a minute.

Marcus Miller: It's going to be a long while. Did you ever hear the story? Um who told me it? Um uh not Rashid. Who was the other um tenor player who played with Train along with Train? Pharaoh. Pharaoh Saunders. And one more Archie Shep.

Ravi Coltrane: Shep. Yes.

Marcus Miller: So Archie told me that um he and Train had a a a gig in the village and Train hadn't showed up uh yet and Archie went out and Train was in the station wagon, right? Just kind of sitting there. He was in a you know like a somber mood. We don't know what was going on. Uh and then Archie said, "Hey man, we're you know supposed to hit". And Train said, "Come with me". Archie said, "Where we going?". He said, "I got to hear Sunny play". And Sunny was playing around the corner and Train sat there in the back of the club. for about 20 minutes and then said okay I'm ready let's go you know. And then went and you know that's I mean they were like two sides of a coin. You know where Sunny was the great improviser of the 50s and then John Coltrane picked up Sunny was hugely influenced by John Coltrane. Uh to where when you heard Sunny in the 80s and the 90s Ravi all of a sudden he's playing these extended solos and Robbie's going you trying to sound like my dad. Sunny,

Ravi Coltrane: any more questions? There's also

Marcus Miller: a question back here.

Ravi Coltrane: Another beautiful instant in instance of that where uh Dexter Gordon is also another great love of mine. Um and I was this close to meeting him before he passed away. Um but he uh John, one of his early influences was Dexter Gordon. You know, if you put on any early John Coltrane recordings, you can hear Dexter in his playing. Uh, you know, Dexter starts his career much earlier than than John. They were of a similar generation, but but Dexter is kind of already kind of on the scene by the by the mid-4s, you know. Uh, and something really beautiful happens. By the end of the 1950s, Dexter now is turned on by John.

Marcus Miller: Yes.

Ravi Coltrane: And John's influence starts to affect Dexter's playing. You know, uh whenever Dexter plays Body and Soul, he's playing John's arrangement of Body and Soul. You know, uh I'd see Maxine Gordon every now and then and she would always tell me these stories about how Yeah. how de how John how Dexter love John so much.

Marcus Miller: That's so beautiful. The humility, the humbleness. Dexter Gordon was one of the leading cats and then Train came along and Dexter says, "You know what? I'm not finished developing". Yeah. You know, recognize that there's there's something here that I can I can incorporate into my thing. It's beautiful. Absolutely. have a question back here.

Audience Member 3: Mhm. This is for both Marcus and Ravi. Marcus, you asked Ravi when did he realize he was ready? Can you both explain, describe what that really means? When what is the process of being ready for the level that you all play at?

Marcus Miller: Well, you can start.

Ravi Coltrane: Well, I think there's a a foundational readiness you know, that uh that each musician has to arrive at at some point, you know. And either that's by hook or by crook, you know. Uh sometimes we get on the band stand before uh we're actually, you know, really prepared to do the job. And to the degree that the the music calls for, you know. Uh and you learn while you're doing that. You have mentors that that show you the way. It's a very very uh important way of of of of learning about this music, you know. Uh, and then there's also this this thing that might not really uh, you know, we're supposed to be students of this music forever, right? You know, in the same way we're speaking about Dexter Gordon realizing that there's no real end point, you know, it's it's it's, you know, we we live and we we grow and and and uh and and evolve, you know. Um, so so being being ready, you know, being prepared. Maybe that's a better way to, you know, being prepared to do the job properly. That's that's the thing that we we really need to get to.

Marcus Miller: You know, I know um when I was 18, um a violinist who I've been playing with, his name was Michael Urbaniac. He was a Polish violinist. He was a good friend of Joe Zavanol. And Joe was looking for a bass player because he Joe and Jaco Pastorius had had an argument and They had decided to split ways. And so Michael Orban called me. He said, "Joe Zavano is going to call you. Stay by your phone". This is in the late '7s. There's no like um cell phones, anything. And I was like, "Man, I'm not ready". You know, I said, "I think I'm going to go take a walk and let my phone ring cuz the last the last thing I wanted to do was say no to Joe Zavano". So, I just like stayed out of the house, you know? And I think Joe recognized that he invited me to the show when they came to to New York because of course he and Jaco eventually reconciled. And so I came to the uh to the Beacon Theater in New York to see them, 18 years old. And Jaco Pastorius was like one of my heroes. And he came down and I said, "Um, hey man, my name is Marcus". And he goes, "Oh yeah, you're the little kid who who plays like me, right?". And I was like, "Oh no. Oh no." But um a couple of years later when I got um the call to play with Miles, I was like, "Okay, I already dodged um I already evaded that next step". And I think this is time for me to just get in there and take my lumps. And um you know, a lot of people, a lot of musicians when they hear their early records, they cringe. You know, Sam Jones, the the the bass player, I said, "Man, Sam, I love what you did on those West Montgomery records". He said, "Oh, man. I was young. I didn't know what I was doing, you know". And I said, "Well, you you was sounding good for somebody who didn't know what they were doing, you know". But once I got with Miles, uh, and he was so supportive, you know, I caught him at a good point in his life and I heard the record back and I said, "Okay, I can hear it now. I can hear that record now and not cringe". I said, "Yeah, I think I was ready". I mean, like you said, it's not like being an athlete where you get to be 35 and you just you're done. Or being a master. You know, I don't really like that word master because it's impossible to master music. You know, you guys heard Sullivan Fortner the other day. I mean, if anybody's close to being a master, it's that dude. But he's still learning. He's still uh anxious to learn. So, it's a beautiful um it's a beautiful journey. And so, if you um the question is not whether you're ready, but are you ready enough to jump in there and take your knocks and really develop because of the experience. This is

Marcus Miller: We have one last question back here.

Audience Member 4: Just curious if you've ever tried to track down your dad's horns or if you know what happened to them.

Ravi Coltrane: Yeah, they're in my stateroom. They don't play themselves though, unfortunately. Is that it?

Marcus Miller: All right. Well, listen, this has been a pleasure. Absolute pleasure. Like said we don't get to see each other as much as I'd like to, but um it's just a pleasure talking to you, man, and hearing what that what that journey of yours was like and is like. So, thank you very much. Give it y'all for Robbie Cold Train, Marcus Miller. Thank you y'all and we'll see you guys on the ship. Thank you.

Lee Mergner (Host): Now, that was an interesting conversation, right? Marcus does such a great job interviewing his fellow artists. Marcus returns as the host along with Gregory Porter for the 2027 edition of Journey of Jazz, which sails January 24th through the 31st, departing from Tampa and then spending two days in the birthplace of jazz New Orleans and then on to Progresso in the Caribbean. Did I mention New Orleans? Yes, New Orleans. And although the announcement of the complete lineup is coming soon, I can confirm that Wynton Marsalis will be performing for our guests while we're in New Orleans. Sign up for updates at Journey of Jazz. com. Thanks to Marcus for providing our theme music with a clip from his song High Life on his album Aphrodesia on Blue Note. Thanks to Brian Ratchkco and his production team for capturing this and so many talks from the cruises. And please subscribe to Jazz Cruis's Conversations iTunes, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcast so you won't miss a single episode. And you can listen to our back catalog of more than 100 interviews with jazz crates from past sailings. Thanks for listening.