Dan & Chris Brubeck: The Maestro, Mio & "The Real Ambassadors"

Host Lee Mergner welcomes brothers Chris Brubeck and Dan Brubeck on the Journey of Jazz Cruise 2025 to discuss growing up with their father, the legendary Dave Brubeck, and how they carried on his musical legacy.

Key Topics and Discussions:

• Dave Brubeck's Cowboy Roots: Dave Brubeck grew up a cowboy; his father, Grandpa Pete, was a tough rodeo champion and foreman of a vast 45,000-acre ranch. Dave's experiences riding horses and hearing the rhythms of nature, like the one-stroke engines for cattle water pumps, inspired his musical time concepts.
• The Grandparents' Marriage: The surprising marriage between "Grandpa Pete" (the tough cowboy) and the grandmother (a classical pianist who studied in Europe with a student of Franz Liszt, Derer Hess). The grandmother attempted to bring "high culture to the ranch," sometimes resulting in pranks played by Grandpa Pete on visiting opera guests.
• Military Service and the Wolfpack: Dave Brubeck served in Patton's army during World War II, present near the Battle of the Bulge. After playing piano impromptu for troops at a supply depot nicknamed "The Mud Hole," Colonel Brown reassigned Dave to put together a band. The band, nicknamed the Wolfpack, was significant as the first known integrated band in the army.
• Darius Mio and Composition: Dave Brubeck's interest in composition led him to study with the great French composer Darius Mio at Mills College after WWII. Mio, who encouraged Dave to "Praise your boogie woogie for me," inspired Dave to pursue large-scale compositions to remind humanity of the horrors of war (a pursuit that eventually led him to break up the classic quartet).
• Joining the Family Band: The brothers' journey into music was gradual, beginning with exposure to jazz musicians like Joe Morello as children. The formal establishment of the family group occurred when a promoter suggested Dave, Darius, Dan, and Chris perform as a quartet, eventually leading to the formation of the New Brubeck Quartet. Chris played fretless bass in this group.

Musical Selections Mentioned/Played:

• "Ode to a Cowboy": Written by Dave and lyricist Iola Brubeck, originally intended for Dan Brubeck. The track played is from the album In their own sweet way.
• "The Real Ambassadors": The anti-segregation musical co-written by Dave and Iola Brubeck. The original recording featured Louis Armstrong, Carmen McCrae, and Lambert, Hendricks & Ross. The show was performed live only once by the original cast at the Monterey Jazz Festival.
• "Someday My Prince Will Come": Dave's version, inspired by hearing Disney tunes playing softly through the wall from his children's record players. Dan Brubeck, the drummer, explains the new approach to the jazz waltz developed by Dave and Joe Morello.
• "My One Bad Habit": A ballad written by Dave and Iola Brubeck, inspired by a line Ella Fitzgerald told Dave at a diner: "my one bad habit is falling in love". Chris Brubeck confirms playing the trombone on this track.

• Listen to more episodes of Jazz Cruises Conversations on Spotify, iTunes, or wherever you get your podcasts. The back catalog contains more than a hundred interviews from past sailings.
• Theme Music: Provided by Marcus Miller from his song "High Life" on his album Afrodeezia on Blue Note.

Transcript

Episode 112: Chris and Dan Brubeck w/ Lee Mergner

Lee Mergner (Host): Hi, welcome to Jazz Cruise’s Conversations. I'm your host, Lee Mergner. This week's episode features an interview I did with Chris and Dan Brubeck during the recent journey of Jazz Cruz. The two brothers talked about growing up with their father, Dave Brubeck, as well as what it was like to play music with him for so many years. During our conversation, they also opted to play a few tracks from recordings they did with Dave. I hope you enjoy it. Hello, folks. Welcome. I used to be a surfer, so this shouldn't be a problem. But yeah, I don't know. Anyway, thanks for coming. Uh we're going to have a great conversation uh with uh um two of Dave's sons. Uh he has several, but these two have really carried on his legacy. So, we're going to talk about that, Dave's legacy, as well as their own music. Please welcome Chris Brewck and Dan Brubeck.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): We got it working. I know. I know.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): We haven't even started to drink.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Just water. It's a special. Whoa.

Lee Mergner (Host): Well, let's Of course, we're going to talk about your father first if we could, but one of the interesting things we've learned is that he was a cowboy. Sort of. Not even sort of. Does this work?

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Yeah, it work.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Yeah, definitely a cowboy. He, you know, with branding and.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Uhhuh.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): his uh dad was a foreman of a 45,000 acre ranch and.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): 45,000 acres.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Yeah. If you can imagine. So he they had like a little cabins set up around the perimeter of the property and a lot of his job was riding the fence line, stopping at those places, spending the night, moving on the next day. So, um yeah, so he spent a lot of time out on the range as it were and a lot of his musical ideas came from those experiences like riding a horse and having the horse kind of going in a certain time thing and you have, you know, eight hours to figure out how to play, you know, three against that or something, you know. So, uh that was a big part of his upbringing. um doing that kind of thing. And and also like I remember him telling us stories about he one of his jobs was to make sure that the water pumps were working for the cattle and they were one-stroke engine engines. So they would you know go you know he'd start counting oh man that's like arty that's seven you know or whatever. Yeah. Exactly.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Yeah. So anyway that that was his early experience. You can tell him about the uh you know how he got going in in music.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Oh yeah. Well, it's it's very strange. Uh like we could never figure out how did our grandparents marriage work. because because uh Grandpa Pete was a tough son of a b**** rodeo champion roper guy. You know I'm trying to think of anyone equivalent that you would know from movies or something but you know more like the the Wilfford Brimley direction of a what a person is like. And then our grandmother was a classical pianist that studied really hard, was really good, and even did something that was socially very uh controversial at the time because she went to Europe to study with uh this famous piano teacher who had been a student of Fran's list. So it was really connected to the lineage, not.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Dane Myra.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Derer Hess. Yeah. So, um, and then she had always these great ideas about like she wanted to bring that high culture to the ranch. So, like, so if someone was trying.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): over well.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): like so if someone was was going to be with the San Francisco opera or something, that'd be like, you know, maybe a two and a half hour ride away and she say, "Oh, you must come out and experience this western life when you're here". And as far as my grandfather was concerned, this is an opportunity to play every prank to freak them out. And they'd be running home to Europe like never again, you know.

Lee Mergner (Host): What what sort of a prank? What would Can you remember?

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Oh, like he would tell stories all about rattlesnakes and stuff all night long and how many cowboys have been thrown off their horses, but he would put a a rope coarse rope in their bed so when they got in, you know, that they would have a shock, that kind of prank.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Yeah. And worse, his driving was like, you know, unbelievable. So my dad said he would just put the car like full throttle in these old like, you know, Model T's or whatever. So, these poor opera people are sitting in this thing and they're going, you know, as fast as this thing can go on these dirt roads in the middle of nowhere. And my my dad said whenever he went to stop cuz he had ridden a horse all his life, he'd pull on the steering wheel and he have to yell, "No, the floor, the floor".

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): And he'd yell, "Whoa, whoa". But a damn car didn't respond.

Lee Mergner (Host): Well, I we were going to play uh uh Ode to a Cowboy. Now I'm thinking, did he write that for his father?

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): No.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): You wrote it for Dan, actually.

Lee Mergner (Host): Oh, wrote for you?

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Yeah.

Lee Mergner (Host): Tell tell us about it.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Well, I I don't know. You know, being a little kid and doing the scene of dressing up like a cowboy and fast guns and all that stuff. So, I you know, I guess I was uh your typical little kid, but uh I think a lot of it was my grandfather, too, because I was born uh Right.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Like a year after.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Yeah. Right after my my grandfather died. So I never met him.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Yeah. So in our family there's always a thing like did Grandpa Pete reincarnate into Dan? You know those kinds of uh questions. And our our mom wrote the the lyrics and they sort of cut both ways. Both were Dan the Kid and Grandpa Pete the maniac.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Or is it the other way around?

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Credit. So.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): you want to hear O to a cowboy?

Lee Mergner (Host): Yeah. All right.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Again. There we go.

Lee Mergner (Host): So Dan, you have a background track. You can do a vocal on it.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Yeah. Yeah. Right.

Lee Mergner (Host): And this is from uh in our own sweet way or.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): in their own way.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): In their own sweet way. This is way before all that pronoun stuff started. And our brother Matthew's on cello and Darius is on electric piano. Dave's on acoustic piano. Obviously a long languid intro as he's writing the range.

Lee Mergner (Host): There been a lot of versions of this. Is it.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): not not that many? I wouldn't think. It's on Giants Impressions of the USA by the old quartet.

Lee Mergner (Host): What a real long intro. I don't remember it being this long.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): That's the melody.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Now we have action. I guess we can fade out on this. That's the idea of the tune. Fade down.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Yeah.

Lee Mergner (Host): O to a cowboy. What came first?

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Yeah. Music or the lyrics?

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Uh, well, almost always it's the music. My mom was a lyricist, so um. Yeah, I forgot about. Yeah. So, my mom wrote lyrics to the songs that my dad had usually pretty much all already written and um there was an early record that Carmen McCrae sang on. U and I think there were a lot of songs that didn't have lyrics at that point. So, some of them are like with Carmen in mind, some of them are, you know, life experience in mind. And, you know, it's It's kind of a mix of where she was coming from on it.

Lee Mergner (Host): Well, one of their great collaborations of course is The Real Ambassadors. Amazing project. Talk a little bit about that. The funny things that can be hard to find because it's be Lewis on is can be under all these great people. John Hendrickx. Uh.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): yeah. Well, um you know, my parents had had done like many jazz artists, the big state department tour, uh in 1958 was their particular one. Dizzy and and Louie had had done these great tours around the world. Um, but my parents were always very strong in the civil rights movement and after we were playing the jazz guys were playing all over the world. You announcing to the world America is the greatest place to be. You know, it just represents democracy so well in terms of collective freedom of exchange of ideas on stage and all that kind of thing. And it really did work well. But then these same groups would come back and they they were told they can't stay in the same hotel together or sometimes play in a place. Well, you know, the black guys in your group can't eat in that restaurant. That kind of stuff. And so my uh parents thought they could advance the cause of people looking at the hypocrisy of America with this musical they wrote called The Real Ambassadors. And they were incredibly thrilled because I can imagine as a writer, you know, myself, what would be more thrilling? Like if you were writing a blues musical and BB King agreed to star in it. Louisie Armstrong agreed to star in the real ambassadors uh because he was known so much around the world and then Carmen McCrae was cast as the um sort of lead female interest. Lambert Hrix and Ross which were the hot totally innovative vocal group at the time were like the Greek chorus. They did some amazing really fast singing as you might imagine that they would. And it was Louis band and Dave Brubeck's group minus Paul Desmond. And so So what happened is they were trying to raise the money for this and everyone said, "Well, it's too controversial and it never went up on Broadway". But David just had a huge hit with Timeout. And so, um, there was a, can you imagine this? There was a time when a person that knew about music ran record companies, not lawyers. And this was particularly amusing because the head of Columbia at the time was a a man named Goddard Lieber.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): His nickname was God. Perhaps you've heard of him. But um.

Lee Mergner (Host): but he signed Miles Davis, right?

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): No, he did. And and and he said, "Well, Dave, you you know, this is a huge hit, so you can do what you want". He says, "I want to do this musical with Louis Armstrong". So they went in the studio when they cut it and um it it never did get up to Broadway, although I mentioned in our first show here uh when we took off on Friday, I guess it was, that um kind of the last laugh is that the Jazz at Lincoln Center did a a beautiful production of it as a concert production and. Uh, and that road that runs right by Jazz Lincoln Center is Broadway at that point. So, the show finally made it to Broadway. But those lyrics uh, her lyrics were just so clever. There's some just really funny things in it and uh, uh, um, and and Armstrong kind of went back and forth a little bit about like, oh no, I'm going to play this, you know.

Lee Mergner (Host): Talk Yeah, talk about.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Well, I think a lot of that was his manager was Joe Glazier, right?

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Who's kind of an famous infamous? I don't know how you put that.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): He was a tough guy.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Yeah. And he really didn't want Louie to to uh take part in in it or for it to go to Broadway because he made so much money on him touring. It was like, if you're in one place forever, you know, we're not going to get the money we could get. And he was also my dad's manager. So, uh, to have two of his top groups not out on the road was more than he could handle. So, he kind of went out of his way to make sure nothing happened. I think the contracts went through him and they always failed and all that stuff, including one of my dad's biggest regrets ever is the one time that all that cast did it live is at the Monterey Jazz Festival. U many of you are from the Bay Area and would know that Jimmy Lions was a very influential uh jazz radio personality and. Uh He actually took my dad down to play for the Monterey City Council to convince him this is the kind of music you should let that that you know the campground or horse.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): fairgrounds fairgrounds.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): fairgrounds. Yeah. Yeah. You should let it be used for a jazz festival. What what kind of jazz? What is jazz? You know, and so so so Dave was the canary in the coal mine. He came down there and played for them and they said, "Okay, we'll let you do it". So Jimmy Lions trying to work around Joe Glazer as he as he uh he he booked the festival at the time. He got Louis Arm Strong to appear, Carmen McCrae to appear, Lambert Hendrickson and Ross to appear and Dave Brubeck Quartet and then after all those contract sign. Oh, I have an idea. What if you did the Real Ambassadors while you're there and and it worked and they did it and it was it was the one time that it was ever performed live on stage. And one of my dad's biggest regrets ever was that there was a camera crew that they said, you know, we're all set up and we're doing something and you know, you know, we can film this for it wasn't a huge amount of money like you know.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): 300 or something maybe $300 but.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): yeah something and Joe Glazer said you know no no you know and then he would say well we're going to wait till we have a big television special and then we so that one time evaporated into the cosmos and uh but we keep uh now there would be a lot of people are gone but we we you know in jazz history books they always say that that was the most one of the most amazing and beautiful performances that ever happened at the Monterey Jazz Festival because of the depth and I don't know if we have some.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): have it unfortunately. Sorry.

Lee Mergner (Host): Okay. There's not one tune like summer song or anything like that from Louis or whatever. Okay. But uh anyhow, it it's fantastic and and I'll tell you that there was a book written all about this real ambassador. It's by Keith Hatchek and it's gotten great reviews in the jazz press and you can actually go online and find this record um you know on YouTube or something, but it's got some beautiful poignant songs. And the thing that's really inside out about this whole thing is that that Louisie Armstrong you know We all know the image of his playing great and dazzling teeth and wiping his forehead all the time. And um he was so much more radical in his heart than than than people wanted him to let or Joe Glazer specifically. You know, you're are you kidding? You know, if you go out there and say what you really feel about racism in the United States, we're going to lose our Bing Crosby shots on national TV and and it's true. He was on all those kinds of shows and the movies and all that stuff, but that's why he loved being in the show. Because ironically, the character that he played in this show in a book written by my mom in the lyrics was more like what he felt like that he wasn't allowed in real life to do. If you can imagine that inside out thing. So,

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): well, I just found it. The internet's a credible thing.

Lee Mergner (Host): Oh, yeah. Louis Armstrong's version.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): I think this. Well, this is the real ambassador.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): This is that the real ambassador. Is that okay? We are diplomats in our proper habitual along with all the ritual the diplomat.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Yeah. Oh. analyzed and criticized by NBC and CBS senators and congressmen are so concerned they can't be said and all your deta and cost. Who's the real ambassador? Oh yeah the real ambassador. Who's the real ambassador? It is evident represent American to the real ambassadors but we may appear as we proper along with all the ritualiz.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): I'm the real ambassador. It is evident I was sent by government to take your place. All I do is play the blues and meet the people face to face. I'll explain and make it plain. I represent the human race and don't pretend no more. Who's the real ambassador? Certain facts we can't ignore. In my humble way, I for you. They say though I represent the government the government don't represent some policies I'm further or we learn to be concerned about the constitutionality in our nation segregation isn't legality soon our only differences will be in personality that's what I stand for who really ambassador yet to real fast in his humble way. He's the USA. Though he represents the government, the government don't represent some policies he's for. Oh, we learn to be concerned about the constitutionality. In our nation, segregation isn't a legality. Soon our only differences will be in person. ity. That's what I stand for.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Who's the real ambassador? Yes. Go.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Yeah. Uh, Iola Brubeck. I mean,.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): those lyrics. Woo.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): A little bit appropos for for today. so apppropo right now, right, to hear those lyrics.

Lee Mergner (Host): Well, one of the things I wanted to I remember you told me amazing story about your your father in the military because he was in World War II in a very important time.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Uh yeah. Well, um is it the one about the Battle of the Bulge?

Lee Mergner (Host): Yeah.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Uh yeah,. we all have that these days at our age, but but This this in particular was um a Dave was in Patton's army and it's a it's an interesting quirk of military history that that England was filled with spies and Eisenhower is a commander-in-chief and all these different armies had amassed in England including General Patton's army and when D-Day happened you know which we've all seen and God bless Stephen Spielberg for giving us what it felt like to be there like I remember I took to Dave's oldest grandchild, which happened to be my son, you know, to see that movie. I said, you know, look at Saving Private Ryan. That's what a whole generation, you know, remembered and went through there. And um and and England, since Patton did not go on the D-Day invasion. So all the German spies saying to Hitler and the generals, this can't be the one. Why would they leave their greatest general off the field? I mean, this is like a poker game with the highest stakes, you know, holding back your high card. So Dave wasn't in D-Day, but he came over uh weeks later. And then at that point, the Battle of the Bulge was about to happen. And so there was a place called the the Mud Hole was the nickname because it was the supply depot to supply the front. And thousands of troops were there and it was muddy from all the tractors and tanks going through. And someone thought, you know what, before these guys go go out to face the Panzer Division, which was coming from Germany. Um, let's give them a song to buck them up, you know. So, uh, they had, I always refer to them as the Andrew Sisters wannabes, uh, come out in a truck and the side of it would fold down and they would sing some songs for the GI with this portable stage. But they got out there and the first thing they said is, "We've lost our piano player. Does anyone play piano?" So, even Dave's own troop soldiers had not heard him play played piano cuz he was considered a rifleman. But they said, "Didn't you used to say you played piano on the ranch?" You know, so they nudged him and stuff and he got up out of the mud. He was sitting on his helmet and he gets up there. No rehearsal, no music. You like many of the gigs around here. No. And uh now he he played his ass off and uh people went nuts and the girls were going nuts, you know. And my father had great ears. He had he had troubles with uh with his vision and you know, he probably was on some sort of I don't know all the initials of what it would be in modern technology terms but he was reliant on his ears which served him well at that point. So anyhow, a guy named Colonel Brown saw this kid get up out of the mud and play his his ass off and he said, "Man, I I can't stand the thought of this kid going out there and you know their job was to dig fox holes and and and put sticky bombs on German treads, you know, when they ran over you". They're like, "What if his what if his hand gets run? or what if he a big shell goes off and he goes deaf? I can't stand the thought of it, you know". So he he he said to his sergeant, "Go down and get this guy". And then he he said, "You know what's your name?" Private Break. He said, "I want you uh to put a band together. I think it's more important that you you play music". And so he said, "But I've got some requirements. I want you to find musicians that have been wounded that got the Purple Heart that you can put in your band". I always say, "That's a hell of a vin diagram to try to all together. But uh Dave did. And the other thing that was amazing about this is that they were so far away from Washington. They were they were under the official radar. And you guys might recall that the the Wolfpack submarines of Germany were, you know, that was like a bad word, but they called their their band the Wolfpack because they're under the radar. And he was the first guy to have an integrated band in the army. No one was there to stop him. So, uh, and and the the I've been telling the story for a long time, but I just had another kicker come in because uh we had the Brebeck Archives at the Wilton Library in Wilton, Connecticut. And uh to make a long story a little shorter, a guy calls up and he says, "Uh, I played with your dad in World War II". I'm going, "Wait a minute".

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): 12. And he said, "Yeah". I said, "I'd like to talk to you about it. Maybe do a you know". So we said, "God, let's let's why don't you come up uh uh we'll do an interview. We want to put your memories in the archives." So the guy turns out to be a drummer, which I just want you to know that this is uh good for drummers. And um he turns out he's 103 years old. And he and he said, "You could come up anytime, but not on Thursdays". And I says, "Why is that?" I'm thinking maybe he gets a transfusion or something.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): It's got to be a gig.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Yeah. He says, "Because I play drums in the big band every Thursday night." uh and uh he says, "And I still move my own drums. I won't let anyone touch my drums." And so he came up and we did this interview. He flew up to to Connecticut and u we walked around and man, it was hard to keep up with him. He was in he was in he was in great shape and he said he'll tell me some stories but not all the stories. But but this is included things like um going with Dave up up a finicula to go see the eagle's nest. were Adolf Hitler. That was his like big hideaway up in the mountains. Or this is the same tour that the Rock Hats were on. This is the end of the war, the mopup of thing. And Dave's band from the Wolfpack had grown to include strings and oos and all this kind of stuff.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): with with German musicians as well.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): He would add German.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): PS with P uh.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): No, at this point there were just guys that, you know, I mean, the average musician probably wasn't a huge fan of Hitler in Germany either, you know, so they were happy to to join the Americans and because the the uh the Rockett actually had even a ballet core besides the high kicking thing going on. And uh my wife and I, Tish, we we were able to to meet and talk to a 92-year-old rocket at Radio City who was worshiped by the current girls and uh and and she she still had great legs. It was amazing. It was like it was like talking to Gwyn Verton or something on 92. But she said, "You know, your dad was a good boy and a really good truck driver. But on their day off, he learned from his dad." But on their day off, the Rockets went to the Nermberg trials, if you can imagine. It's not exactly who you expect to see in a courtroom, but you know, they knew history was being made. So anyhow, there's all sorts of history with Dave and connecting to jazz and world events and uh it's amazing. And I can't believe, you know, that just a new piece of history popped into my life with a guy that was three. You know, we we did the Kennedy honors and one of the things that was weird is they they had an integrated uh army band that was supposed to represent all that, but they never made a point of that. So, I don't know that anyone put two and two together.

Lee Mergner (Host): Well, of course, everyone wants to know how how early did you guys get started with him? I mean, uh and it wasn't just you two, it was all of you. How how did that sort of come to pass? Was it sort of gradual or was like, "No, you guys are going to you know, my band or?

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Oh, very gradual.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Yeah, very gradual. I mean, you know, as little children, I still remember like, you know, Dan would be five years old or something and Joe Mela would put Dan in his lap and show him how to hold a stick and, you know, that kind of stuff.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): I wish I had gotten that a little more together, but.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): And then I, you know, I like to crawl around the floor and uh that was a safe place. I wouldn't be underfoot. I used to go under the piano and then I could hear the piano really well and I' hear Gan Wright's bass, the bottom part of it, and I'd hear Joe Morel's bass drum and and and then we went off to music school and were more interested in rock and roll and stuff like that. And the evolution was that at one point we were doing tours and this is after the classic quartet had broken up with uh Jean Paul and Joe and uh and it was a new group that like Dave retired from that group for me only six months when George Wan said, "You know, Jerry Mulligan lives only about 10 miles from you. You play with Jerry and they really hadn't played together."

Lee Mergner (Host): Wow.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): And so it was Jerry and Dave and Alan Dawson, amazing drummer from Boston, very influential, not as famous as he should be, but he taught Tony Williams, for example.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): He taught at Berkeley for a long time. Yeah.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Yeah. Yeah. And uh Jack 6 on bass. So that used to go out on tour. And then older brother Darius, who plays piano, had a band that Dan was in and I was kind of in um sometimes. And then I had my own rock and roll group. And they're like we would play it over for a parent weekend. So for the parents that are coming back, yeah, Dave was a big thing in college. So they'd see that and for the kids saying, "I don't know who he is, but let's hear some rock and roll". And they'd hear my band and then Daryus's band was in the middle. So we we were doing that for a couple years and then one day a promoter said, "Hey, you know, it's like Darius is here and Danny's here and you're here and Dave's here. Why don't you guys just do something as a quartet?" And we did and people went wild. And then my mom pointed out, "Well, what's cheaper? 16 guys on the road code or four, you know, and uh so then we."

Lee Mergner (Host): you're recycling that revenue, you know.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Yeah. So, um it it it turned out to be a cool thing for a couple years like we played at the Montro Jazz Festival, made a live record there and really got to go all around the world and it was it was fun for a couple years and then uh Darius wanted to keep going. And at that time, by the way, the great tenor saxs player if you're into s Jerry Banzi was in the group at that point. He's like a jazz tener tax legend. Um, so Darius and and Dan sort of branched off to continue that more avantgard direction and my rock group had fallen apart and and Dave said, "Why don't you go play with me?" So I said, "Oh, what the hell?" So I was playing the same bass I'll be playing tonight, you know, back a fretless bass back then. It fit good with Dave and uh we continued. So that that was called the new Brubec Quartet and that's sort of the evolution of how we got going.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): But I'll say for for years, you know, he'd say, "I'm going up to uh, you know, play at Yale at a fraternity thing for my friend". We used to live next door to John Hershey, the writer. And so he he was up at Yale. And um, you know, I'm just thinking of early gigs. My dad would say, "Well, do you want to come and play drums on this gig?" You know, I was like 10. Yeah. You know, sounds like fun. You know, so there were little things like that where he was kind of, you know, pushing us towards a career in music and was always fun.

Lee Mergner (Host): One of the things I always admired about him was that he was very people associate him with a very specific thing but his interests were very broad in terms of music. You know, he and he he didn't seem that judgmental about other genres and forms. Is that right?

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): I I think that's pretty true. I mean, some of you may know that uh after World War II, he was able to study with the great French composer named Darius Mio who was at Mills College in Oakland and that's because he was a French Jew and the Nazis took his apartment you know so he was much better off being in a college he didn't belong at teaching composition. But all the people in World War II a lot of people like including Bert Bakarat and Pete Rugalo and a lot of different musicians like oh my god there's a a chance to study with this great guy and it was really funny because u Mio was a very quick writer he would like it was sort of like Mozart. He would write in pen and never fix anything and didn't need a piano. That kind of a genius level. And so the first interview he had with my dad, you know, he he wanted to know why do you want to study with me? And he said, well, you're part of Leis, you know, along with Oliver Messier and these great French composers. And my father thought that if he could ever learn how to to compose for orchestra and chorus, he wanted to do some big pieces to sort of remind humanity that you can't make the same mistakes and have a war in Europe like what he saw and the destruction of all these cities and the destruction of humanity and and it's you know it just was a horrible thing and so that was his dream which he finally achieved it it took years and that's one of the reasons he broke up the classic quartet was to pursue this composition. But uh you know so that's what he told me about he said because you know because you guys that's the coolest music on the planet right now you French you know modern composers and and Mio said, "Well, no, actually we're all bored with our music. We think the coolest thing that there is to listen to is jazz". And he would always say, "Praise your boogie woogie for me". So that's how their lessons would would start and they remained great friends. And that's why her older brother Darius is named Darius Mo in honor of Darius.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Yeah. And well to that point too, my dad had two brothers and one of them was Darius Mio's assistant and that's kind of how he knew about Darius Mio um and um some music assistant and maybe life assistant, I don't know. Um and then his oldest brother was a drummer that played in the Gil Evans Orchestra. So there were quite a few.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): and this is before Gil Evans was known. This is up Stockton California. Yeah.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): You want to play something? How about uh someday my.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Oh, yeah. Yeah. You want to tell about it?

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Well, you know, people will often say, "Did did Dave actually teach you directly?" And there weren't that many direct lessons of teaching. Uh because the simple answer is he was on tour all the time. So, like when we got a when I had a piano teacher, it was a guy who specialized in teaching children because many of you probably had this experience. If you get the wrong piano teacher, your child will hate the piano forever and you don't want that. So, you got a good one. And um Anyhow, one thing he was specific about was Dave invented this new approach to jazz walls along with Joe Mel. U and the I I remember when I talked to you this on the phone like Dave would come home from these nightclubs like 3:00 in the morning smelling like an ashtray and and our mom would say like be really quiet, you know, your dad needs to get some sleep. So they brought us these little record players um that you know cost maybe 20 bucks or something and we had Disney records. So our dad's asleep and very softly we're listening to these Disney tunes like Alice in Wonderland and Someday My Prince Will Come and so Dave's like it's sinking into his subconscious through the the wall.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): had a dream.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Yeah. Right. So he starts thinking about like actually these would make great jazz tunes. So um and he was very proud of saying that uh after he put out a record called Dave Digs Disney based on all the dribble coming through the wall but doing doing hip versions of it. Miles Davis's next record was called Someday My Prince Will Come. So, um anyhow, Dave approached it with uh Dan, you should explain. You're the drummer about about how Dave would approach this thing.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Well, it's a little technical, but maybe not that technical because I got the right crowd here. But, uh you know, prior in in the old days, the Walts was your high hat was usually like on two and three boom boom, you know, that kind of thing. And you know, that's still a viable way to play in three. But, uh, Mel figured out, well, you can really make this swing if you don't bother playing that way. So, he would play the high hat on every other beat. So, instead of one boom chick, boom, chick be boom chick one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three, one, two, three, and yeah and playing in four with his right hand. So that that just put a whole another uh way of approaching the music.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): and it meant that a soloist could either play in three or play in four or play in halftime. It just opened up all these different avenues and then and then just to really mess with their heads, Dave would like stretch the time like silly putty. And so I think this this cut is from uh a record that Dan produced uh called Trio Brewac. I believe if it's the right one and.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): but you should tell them the Carnegie Hall story because that always.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Yeah. When Dave That's okay. When When Dave played this with his quartet at Carnegie Hall, which became one of his most famous records, um the the critics said, "These guys from the West Coast, they don't even know how to play a wal together". Okay. Onward. How old was he?

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): About 70 maybe. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. Heat. That's the cowboy stuff. Left hand is 42 3 2 Disney. Disney. You brought him Disney.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Yeah. Disney. You know, when he would stretch time like that, Chris and I being. the rhythm section, it was we called it tying ourselves to the mass. It was like being by, you know.

Lee Mergner (Host): did he have a did he have a relationship at all with Miles?

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Yeah. They were friends.

Lee Mergner (Host): What was their their rel because, you know, Miles is you a prickly character.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Yeah, he was. But I I was vainly looking for I've seen a picture of Miles being at her house playing basketball. with Dave and and Darius at one point. I'm dying to find that photo.

Lee Mergner (Host): Well, another song you you would suggest it was playing was one uh my one bad habit or one bad.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Lee Mergner (Host): Tell tell us about that one.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Um is this an instrumental version? I'm trying to.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): say again.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): Is it instrumental version?

Lee Mergner (Host): Uh it's on It's from uh let's see, sorry.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): I probably is.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Yeah. Well, whatever it is, it's interesting because Dave was at a very bad unlike this beautifully organized festival, a bad jazz festival in Atlantic City and uh and like at 1 in the morning, he was in some horrible fluorescent lighted diner place with Ella Fitzgerald. And uh he he said to uh to Ella you know, how you doing? And she said, well, you know, Dave, my one bad habit is falling in love. And his brain went like, oh my god, what an what a great title for a song. So, uh, he he wrote this tune and my my mother uh, wrote lyrics to it and, uh, it just it's a beautiful beautiful ballad. And I'm we're not sure whether this is an instrumental version.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): In the we play, so I guess not.

Dan Brubeck (Voice 2): Oh, okay. So, it's me playing trombone on it. But anyhow, he always he gave credit to Ella Fitzgerald for the title and the lyrics along with Iola too. We can we can feed that. Yeah, I should have mentioned like for example, I told you what the title was and so the opening line that I play is my one bad habit is falling in love. I mean, you can really just hear it right there.

Lee Mergner (Host): Well, we're out of time. I I know you probably have questions for them. They'll be here. You're not you're not allowed to go anywhere for uh uh but thank you guys so much.

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): You have to do another interview, right?

Lee Mergner (Host): Huh?

Chris Brubeck (Voice 1): You have to go do an interview.

Lee Mergner (Host): Yeah, I do. Sean down. Let's hear for Lee. All right. Thank you, man. Well, I hope you enjoyed my conversation with the Loquacious Brubeck brothers. We could have easily talked for another hour about their father and their mother and their life in music. There's still a few cabins open on the 2026 sailings of both Christian McBride's World at Sea starting on January 20th and the Jazz Cruise, which set sail on January 27th. During McBride's World See, Christian will be presenting guest vocalists, Lettysy, Angelie Kijjo, Samara Joy, Cecil McLaren, Salvant, Jose James, and Melissa Walker. And you'll hear Christian with his various ensembles, including his big band, Inside Straight, Ursa Major, and the Remembering Ray Brown Project with Benny Green and Gregory Hutchinson. And of course, providing the laughs, in addition to our comedian in residence, Alonzo Bowden, is his friend, the comic giant George Wallace. Go to McBrideworldc.com to learn more. And the Following week, the jazz cruise features more than 100 artists and 200 hours of music. Headliners include Katherine Russell, Ron Carter, Pakito de Rivera, Chucho Valdez, Kurt Elling, Anat Cohen, Janice Seagull, Monty Alexander, Matthew Whitaker, Woo, John Pitzerelli, Veronica Swift, and dozens more. It really is straight ahead jazz heaven. Learn more at thejazzcruise.com. Thanks to Marcus as always for providing our theme music with a clip from his song High Life on his album Aphrodesia on Blueote. And thanks to Brian Ratchkco and his production team for capturing this and so many talks from the sailings. Next week's edition will feature another listening party. This one with Bria Sconeberg, who plays cuts from her album, What It Means, and she talks about the making of the recording. Thanks for listening.